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Friday, April 14, 2006

Jerry Falwell preaches Arminian, but prays like a Calvinist!

by Alan

Ergun Caner's sermon was classic American Pop Arminianism. After an hour in a half of refuting Ergun Caner exegetically and historically, Dr. White finished with playing the closing prayer by Jerry Falwell. Here's the program.

Immediately before he prayed, Falwell made this comment to the audience,
He will not force you against your will to come to the cross.
I kid you not, just after he made this statement, he closed in prayer in which he made the following request to God,
Do not let one person say 'no' to your precious will. Save the lost.
At 1:08 toward the very end of this clip, you can hear Jerry Falwell make this Arminian statement before he prays, then immediately contradict himself when he prays Calvinisticly.

Jerry Falwell, what about this so-called libertarian free will of man as you teach? How can you tell God, "Do not let one person say 'no' to your precious will," and at the same time say that God "will not force you against your will"? Should not God respect man’s free will if he says ‘no’? Which is it Rev. Falwell?

This phenomenon is nothing new. Invariably, Arminians pray Calvinisticly, “God, change my unbelieving relative’s heart.” I have never heard them pray, “God, only whisper in my relative’s ear, but don’t change their heart unless you’ve been given permission.”

I don’t know about you, but I am glad that God subdued my rebelious will. I am thankful that when I was spitting in the face of God, he demonstrated his grace and love in penetrating my will and raising me up to spiritual life.

Evidently, for many Evangelicals including Caner and Falwell this is not loving of God to do.

Cheers.

8 comments:

  1. As a 2003 graduate of Liberty University, I can vouch for the fact that Dr. Falwell spews out this type of nonsense on a regular basis from the Liberty pulpit. This is the same man who got on national television after 9/11 on the Donahue show and told the whole world that God didn't have ANYTHING to do with what happened that day. Then he'll preach a message of comfort saying that not one hair will fall from your head apart from God's will. I mean, I admire the guy for the amount of faith that he has, and I know that God has done a great deal through his ministry, but he is just a foolish theologian if he can't pick up on those glaring inconsistencies.

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  2. From Charles Spurgeon: "An Arminian on his knees would pray desperately like a Calvinist. He cannot pray about free-will: there is no room for it. Fancy him praying, "Lord, I thank thee I am not like those poor presumptuous Calvinists. Lord, I was born with a glorious free-will; I was born with power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have [done the right thing with] my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace that I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves. Thou givest grace to everybody; some do not [do the right thing with it], but I do. There are many that will go to hell as much bought with the blood of Christ as I was; they had as much of the Holy Ghost given to them; they had as good a chance, and were as much blessed as I am. It was not thy grace that made us to differ; I know it did a great deal, still I [made the difference]; I made use of what was given me, and others did not. That is the difference between me and them." That is a prayer for the devil, for nobody else would offer such a prayer as that. Ah! when they are preaching and talking very slowly, there may be wrong doctrine; but when they come to pray, the true thing slips out; they cannot help it".

    Free Will - A Slave
    http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0052.htm

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  3. Yeah, in the spirit of every Biblical Christian is a hard-core Calvinist!Go on, you Armies, unleash that inner John!

    craig sowder: I'm a graduate of Oral Roberts University (class of '94). Thank God for Reformation...with a capital 'R'! I used to hear about your alma matter back when I was in school ~ even briefly considered going there. I bet ORU & Liberty have a BUNCH in common, huh?!

    ¡sbgtfa!

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  4. I listened to that one with a friend of mine last night. In our discussion we concluded that it would behoove folks in synergist churches to pray this way when praying for the salvation of persons:

    "Dear Lord, we pray for (insert name here)'s salvation. Father, we thank you for the power of the gospel that leads to salvation, for Christ who has paid for sinners' transgression. Oh, Lord, please do not violate (insert name here)'s free will. Please do not change their heart, but honor their freedom to choose. Oh, God thank you for making them savable, and for valuing man's freedom."

    Amen.

    Maybe then, they would understand how absurd they are being.

    The greatest judgment which God Himself can, in this present life, inflict upon a man is, to leave him in the hand of his own boasted free-will.

    -AUGUSTUS TOPLADY

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  5. This thought has been banging around in my head a bit since I listened to the Doug Wilson-Dan Barker debate. Wilson did a lecture to the gathered believers the following day and it's included in the mp3 file, and he made the same point that many of you have made here.

    I guess I started to wonder, though, if it weren't actually true that 5Point Calvinists also often tend to pray just like an Arminian. Do 5PCs not sometimes pray that God would convict ______ of their sins and save them? But why pray such a prayer? If God has predestined from eternity past to save them and they are among the elect, why bother praying for them? Why pray for mercy while traveling? Will not God take you to Heaven at the time that pleases Him?

    In response, would you say that you pray such things so as to communicate w/ God and so that YOU might be brought more into communion w/ Him and submission to His Will? Is that the only reason you pray such things? When you pray for someone's salvation, do you honestly expect it to change anything?

    And please, these are all honest questions, not rhetorical.

    Respectfully,
    ALAN

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  6. Rhology said,

    "I guess I started to wonder, though, if it weren't actually true that 5Point Calvinists also often tend to pray just like an Arminian. Do 5PCs not sometimes pray that God would convict ______ of their sins and save them?"

    This is a prayer of a Calvinist, not an Arminian. When we pray that God will "convict" someone, we are asking God to enable the heart unto repentence.


    "But why pray such a prayer? If God has predestined from eternity past to save them and they are among the elect, why bother praying for them? Why pray for mercy while traveling? Will not God take you to Heaven at the time that pleases Him?"

    Let me answer that question with this: The same apostle Paul who taught that God elects a people for himself, also taught that it is the will of the Father that he ordain the means as well as the message of the good news.

    Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

    But let me throw the question back to you. I assume you believe that from eternity God knew with perfect knowledge who would be saved and who would not. If that is the case, then why pray?

    "In response, would you say that you pray such things so as to communicate w/ God and so that YOU might be brought more into communion w/ Him and submission to His Will? Is that the only reason you pray such things? When you pray for someone's salvation, do you honestly expect it to change anything?"

    I am not privy to the wisdom of God, nor should it be my disposition to understand it fully. I disagree with your use of the word "change." Change from what?

    When I pray I do expect God to work through that. 1) God has commanded me to pray with zeal 2) God has ordained all things. <-- If these two premises are not congruent with my creaturely sensibilites, who am I to talk back to God and tell him that I will not accept his revelation?

    Can you explain the Biblical truths of ex nihilo? Jesus fully God and Human? etc? No, but you still accept them because they are revealed in Scripture.

    I hope this helps,
    Thanks for the questions,
    Alan

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  7. Rhology, you wrote:

    If God has predestined from eternity past to save them and they are among the elect, why bother praying for them?

    Alan's answer is excellent. I'd like to add an illustration.

    We are not fatalists. We believe in what could philosophically be called determinism. Fatalism and determinism are not one and the same.

    Theologically, we do not know the secret will of God. We have His moral will, and that is the way we are to order our lives.

    This is fatalism:
    • If it is fated for x to to be saved, then they will be saved whether or not you pray.
    • Likewise, if x is fated not to be saved, x will not do so even if you pray.
    • So, praying for x makes no difference one way or the other. Ergo, why bother?


    Calvinism looks like this:
    • If it is predestined for you to be saved , then x will be saved.
    • Likewise, if x is predestined not to be saved, you will not pray.

    God has said we are to pray for the lost, and that this is a means to their salvation.

    We do not know if x is predestined to be saved.

    • So, if x is predestined to be saved, it matters if we pray.

    In other words, we don't know if X is to be saved, but we do know that prayer is one means to that end, then it matters if we pray for them.

    Let's put this another way to be clear.

    Fatalism: • If it is fated for you to recover from your illness, then you will recover whether you call a doctor or not.
    • Likewise, if you are fated not to recover, you will not do so even if you call a doctor.
    • So, calling a doctor makes no difference.

    Determinism: • If it is determined for you to recover from your illness, then you will call for a doctor.
    • Likewise, if you are fated not to recover, you will not call a doctor.
    • So, calling a doctor makes a difference.

    Hope that helps.

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  8. Gene and Alan,
    Helpfully illustrative points.

    Helm, Rumination Factor 4. Engage.

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