tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post6867836691015061935..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: GTCC Outreach Report 1-25-2011Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-21600183451858634462011-01-31T11:36:45.613-05:002011-01-31T11:36:45.613-05:00Sending an evangelist to do a funeral is just not ...<i>Sending an evangelist to do a funeral is just not good work.</i><br /><br />Um, yes it is. That's the best person to send.Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-8649621703553906782011-01-30T18:27:03.640-05:002011-01-30T18:27:03.640-05:00Dusman: >>If you know that the Bible teaches...Dusman: >>If you know that the Bible teaches this yet don't love that God, you're worshiping a custom-crafted idol that exists only in your mind. Repent of your idolatry or perish (Luke 13:3, 5).<<<br /><br />Amen, brother. It is refreshing to see a Christian - however rare - who is willing to lay out and stand on this truth. I regularly make that same point online and in "real life," and am unfailingly challenged as to my <i>charity</i>, <i>love</i> and so forth, even by staunch Calvinists.<br /><br />I admire your straightforwardness and boldness for the sake of Christ. Wish I had a bigger piece of the gift you have in such abundance! Keep it up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-9700112665224930042011-01-30T17:55:55.261-05:002011-01-30T17:55:55.261-05:00Dusman is the perfect example of why the body need...Dusman is the perfect example of why the body needs all its parts. Sending an evangelist to do a funeral is just not good work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-84191362002792676912011-01-29T11:45:04.055-05:002011-01-29T11:45:04.055-05:00TUAD,
Don't worry, I work hard to be compassi...TUAD,<br /><br />Don't worry, I work hard to be compassionate in such circumstances. However, sometimes people still get hot.<br /><br />Halo,<br /><br />Thanks for encouraging the average Christian to be perceptive and recognize opportunities that God provides to give the gospel.Dusmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18050174688923887698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-16289571571504905892011-01-28T21:07:50.092-05:002011-01-28T21:07:50.092-05:00Many people find it hard (if not impossible) to do...Many people find it hard (if not impossible) to do the kind of bold evangelism that Mr Dunsman describes. <br /><br />So just to throw in another perspective on our obligation? to cold call, here are some verses in the Bible that need to have a place in our theology:<br /><br />'They hate him who reproves in the gate, and they abhor him who speaks the truth....<b>Therefore he who is prudent will keep silent in such a time</b>, for it is an evil time.' Amos 5:10,13<br /><br />'Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, for he will despise the good sense of your words.' Prov 23:9<br /><br />'Leave the presence of a fool' Prov 14:7<br /><br />There is 'a time to keep silence, and a time to speak' (Eccl 3:7). <br /><br />'...the wise heart will know the proper time and the just way. For there is a time and a way for everything...' (Eccl 8:5-6) <br /><br />'The lips of the righteous know what is acceptable...' Prov10:32<br /><br />The apostle Peter seemed to indicate to wait until asked - we are to be 'prepared to make a defense to anyone <b>who asks you</b> for a reason for the hope that is in you' 1Pet3:15.<br /><br />Paul said we should 'walk in wisdom toward outsiders' (Col 4:5) and the focus was also on knowing 'how you ought to <b>answer</b> each person' rather than how to 'go up and tell' each person.<br /><br />Even Paul himself was seeking an open door <b>before</b> he declared the Word: '...pray also for us, that God may open to us a door for the word, to declare the mystery of Christ...' (Col 4:3).<br /><br />And Jesus, to a guy delivered from demon-possesion, did not tell him to tell everyone he saw but only to go 'to your friends and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you' (Mk 5:19).<br /><br />Another interesting article by Doug Wilson on this topic:<br /><br />http://www.credenda.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=99&Itemid=116<br /><br />See the article in Volume 14 Number 6 called "Guilt-free Evangelism".<br /><br />I think the evangelism Dunsman does is amazing, thank God for the gift he has. All I intend is to raise questions about what obligations the Lord has laid on the rest of us individually in this regard.Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06242793531954844979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-68839428992392271692011-01-28T18:08:43.717-05:002011-01-28T18:08:43.717-05:00As a friend and in also my role as a Pastor, I jus...As a friend and in also my role as a Pastor, I just attended a funeral in support of several church members who had a relative die suddenly.<br /><br />There was No Gospel, just a vague mention that Jesus helps us through the trials of our lives. Sheltered in the Arms of God was one of the songs sung.<br /><br />But with no mention of the Gospel the question becomes; how does one get sheltered in the arms of God?<br /><br />I to find a funeral a God-ordained time to speak of life and death in the light of whether we live or die – we are the Lord's. And one day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.GREVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10415494137313565242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-6806687778184158332011-01-28T17:34:10.543-05:002011-01-28T17:34:10.543-05:00"I've had people's relatives so angry...<i>"I've had people's relatives so angry with me for telling them they are going to Hell at funerals that if they could have slit my throat and got away with it they would've. I've had people get up and walk out mid-sermon (both in church and at funerals). I've had redneck family members wait in the parking lot to cuss me out or worse after I walked outside from the church building. Then when they then spew their venom, I preach the gospel to them again and *plead* with them to repent and believe lest they get what they deserve. I've been physically attacked for the cause of the gospel and didn't do it for my own glory, but for His.</i><br /><br />My brother in Christ, Pastor Dusman, I know where your heart is. And as such you have my unqualified support for what you've just described in the quoted excerpt above.<br /><br />Wincingly, I have to speculatively report that the majority of Christians would criticize you for doing this. I suspect that if I were to read off that excerpted paragraph to my Christian friends here, they would criticize you heavily.<br /><br />I don't know what to do. Just expressing my angst.<br /><br />Thanks again Pastor Dusman for your Great Commission work.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-38967204875057379332011-01-28T16:11:45.580-05:002011-01-28T16:11:45.580-05:00"God uses evangelism to call the elect out of...<i>"God uses evangelism to call the elect out of darkness into light."</i><br /><br />Amen. I preach to all, plead with any who will listen, and God uses that as the God-ordained means to bring the elect to faith in Christ in in His time. "One plants, one waters, but God causes the growth." 1 Cor. 3:6Dusmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18050174688923887698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-37760668478614960262011-01-28T15:41:20.269-05:002011-01-28T15:41:20.269-05:00No, I'm not reaching out to *elect* unbeliever...No, I'm not reaching out to *elect* unbelievers–since I don't which unbelievers are elect or reprobate. From my blinkered, human viewpoint, it makes no difference. It's the same message for both groups.<br /><br />All things being equal, regeneration a necessary, but not a sufficient condition for salvation. All things being equal, salvation requires saving hence. Regeneration restores a predisposition to believe the Gospel, but that's not a substitute for saving faith. Regeneration makes the soul receptive to revealed truth, while evangelism supplies the object of of knowledge. <br /><br />We can debate special cases, like mental incompetents, but if they are exceptions, there's an obvious reason why they are exceptional (since they lack even the natural cognitive ability to exercise saving faith).stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-63951750707419535992011-01-28T15:19:19.602-05:002011-01-28T15:19:19.602-05:00God uses evangelism to call the elect out of darkn...<i>God uses evangelism to call the elect out of darkness into light. There's no internal contradiction here.</i><br /><br />So you are only reaching out to the "lost" elect who have not YET been regenerated? If that is the case, then why would you need to "plead" with them to repent? The elect cannot help but be regenerated before they die, while the objects of wrath are beyond any hope. Seems like there would be no need to "plead" with either group.Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597511645534603563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-20822071702671636412011-01-28T15:05:01.792-05:002011-01-28T15:05:01.792-05:00WALTER SAID:
"It is interesting to hear a pr...WALTER SAID:<br /><br />"It is interesting to hear a predestinarian pleading with people to repent. Almost as if the truly lost--those predestined for damnation--had libertarian free will, and could actually respond to the plea."<br /><br />Of course you frame the issue in tendentious terms. Unbelievers are "truly lost" apart from faith in the gospel. <br /><br />God uses evangelism to call the elect out of darkness into light. There's no internal contradiction here.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-56723966619349381632011-01-28T14:48:14.074-05:002011-01-28T14:48:14.074-05:00Then when they then spew their venom, I preach the...<i>Then when they then spew their venom, I preach the gospel to them again and *plead* with them to repent and believe lest they get what they deserve.</i><br /><br />It is interesting to hear a predestinarian pleading with people to repent. Almost as if the truly lost--those predestined for damnation--had libertarian free will, and could actually respond to the plea.Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597511645534603563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-61796590074419272902011-01-28T14:21:23.222-05:002011-01-28T14:21:23.222-05:00James,
You asked,
"Maybe, but what better p...James,<br /><br />You asked,<br /><br /><i>"Maybe, but what better place is there than a funeral to approach people with the Good News?"</i><br /><br />I've preached many funerals. As as matter of fact, I'd rather preach a funeral than almost any other venue since you have people being reminded that they too will one day "return to the dust". <br /><br />I tell any family that asks me to officiate their deceased loved one's funerals: "I'm here to provide comfort in a difficult time through reminding the saved of their glorious inheritance and the lost of their impending doom. The greatest means by which God comforts people is through the glorious truth that there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus and that heaven awaits them, but for those outside of Christ, this is as good as it gets for you, so don't stop breathing. The dead loved one is gone, but you and your family are alive and listening, so if you don't want to risk having potentially angry family members and you don't want the walls sweating, don't ask me to preach." <br /><br />I've had people's relatives so angry with me for telling them they are going to Hell at funerals that if they could have slit my throat and got away with it they would've. I've had people get up and walk out mid-sermon (both in church and at funerals). I've had redneck family members wait in the parking lot to cuss me out or worse after I walked outside from the church building. Then when they then spew their venom, I preach the gospel to them again and *plead* with them to repent and believe lest they get what they deserve. I've been physically attacked for the cause of the gospel and didn't do it for my own glory, but for His. <br /><br />So, I have a question for the God-haters here, how many times have you loved people enough to put your own safety, livelihood, and even life on the line so as to lovingly help those who passionately hate you and all you stand for?Dusmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18050174688923887698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-77395336183707123202011-01-28T12:07:56.480-05:002011-01-28T12:07:56.480-05:00The Westboro cult isn't using graveside servic...The Westboro cult isn't using graveside services to present the gospel. Rather, it's going out of its way to alienate the mourners. <br /><br />I didn't say funerals were out of bounds for evangelism, and you know it. You're not even attempting to be honest.<br /><br />Rather, you think you have a wedge issue you can exploit, so you willfully disregard some fundamental differences. <br /><br />When you can't make an honest case for your position, what does that say about you and your position?stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-76307570134197399022011-01-28T11:40:17.704-05:002011-01-28T11:40:17.704-05:00"Dustin's campus ministry it, itself, an ..."Dustin's campus ministry it, itself, an expression of his love for the lost."<br /><br />Maybe, but what better place is there than a funeral to approach people with the Good News? Let's face it: a campus is generally not going to be the most receptive place for hearing the Gospel. At a funeral, people are more likely to be pondering the weighty matters of life and death.<br /><br />If preaching the Gospel is an act of love, as you suggest, I don't see why a very public funeral should be off limits.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01694207997231305470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-53251521550059790952011-01-27T21:21:14.833-05:002011-01-27T21:21:14.833-05:00Does Dustin's theology prescribe that he picke...Does Dustin's theology prescribe that he picket military funerals? <br /><br />Does does evangelism. Does the Westboro cult? Phelps is a hyper-Calvinist, not a Calvinist. <br /><br />Dustin's campus ministry it, itself, an expression of his love for the lost.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-17640154600519872412011-01-27T21:10:39.927-05:002011-01-27T21:10:39.927-05:00Bruce, here are the quotes from Dusman's post ...Bruce, here are the quotes from Dusman's post in reference to God:<br /><br />He ...<br />-"Hates the sinner and not just the sin (Psalm 5:5; 11:5)?<br />-Creates <b>most</b> people for the purpose of displaying His justice in their destruction (Proverbs 16:4; Matthew 7:13-14; Romans 9:22-23)?<br />-Predestines people for salvation and the rest for damnation (John 6:37-44, 65; Romans 9:11-23; Ephesians 1:4-11; 1 Peter 2:8)?<br />-Punishes those whom He's created to destroy forever in Hell (1 Peter 2:8)?<br /><br /><br />Here is the theology of Westboro: http://www.godhatesfags.com/reports/20060331_god-loves-everyone-lie.pdf<br /><br />Just because Dusman delivers his message a bit more tactfully perhaps doesn't mean the content is different in substance.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01694207997231305470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-13046271440933206262011-01-27T20:50:05.166-05:002011-01-27T20:50:05.166-05:00WALTER:
""the question "Does God ha...WALTER:<br />""the question "Does God hate people" is an excellent conversation starter."<br /><br />Works pretty well for the Westboro Calvinists.<br /><br />Kudos to Dusman for being upfront with people, letting them know exactly what he believes, including the ugly parts. Telling folks that God hates 9 out of every 10 people that walk the earth, is probably not a good way to pack the pews--but at least you are not trying to sugarcoat it.<br /><br />1/27/2011 5:02 PM<br /><br />So, let me get this straight... You read that whole post, the whole of the three encounters, <br /><br />and at the end, you couldn't tell the difference between a Dusman and a WBoro fan?<br /><br />If I ever need a life-jacket, please don't throw ANYTHING my way.Brucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750404686325950389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-26464774849187085632011-01-27T17:02:35.255-05:002011-01-27T17:02:35.255-05:00"the question "Does God hate people"..."the question "Does God hate people" is an excellent conversation starter."<br /><br />Works pretty well for the Westboro Calvinists.<br /><br />Kudos to Dusman for being upfront with people, letting them know exactly what he believes, including the ugly parts. Telling folks that God hates 9 out of every 10 people that walk the earth, is probably not a good way to pack the pews--but at least you are not trying to sugarcoat it.Walterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597511645534603563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-3673246982820524532011-01-27T16:36:07.815-05:002011-01-27T16:36:07.815-05:00TODDES SAID:
"So I am to hate my family as c...TODDES SAID:<br /><br />"So I am to hate my family as commanded in Luke 14:36 or am I to love them less than Christ as commanded in Matthew 10:37?"<br /><br />Is that your attempt to be cute and clever, or do you really not get it?<br /><br />i) To begin with, the love/hate lingo is a rhetoric device based on Hebrew parallelism. Hyperbolic language to stress opposing conduct. It doesn't refer to feelings.<br /><br />ii) There is no "command" to hate your parents. That's grossly simplistic. The context of that statement is explicitly qualified.<br /><br />If your family forces you to choose between allegiance to Christ and allegiance to kith and kin, then you must choose Jesus over your natural family.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-8344440572752840502011-01-27T16:24:36.979-05:002011-01-27T16:24:36.979-05:00"the question "Does God hate people"...<i>"the question "Does God hate people" is an excellent conversation starter."</i><br /><br />I think it is. I've never done it before, but I'm guessing that it is.<br /><br />I mean, how many times have I heard people say or write: "God is Love"?<br /><br />Over and over again, I've heard that. So to ask "Does God Hate People?" should surely engender conversation after they do a double take at the question.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-46836999378637894342011-01-27T16:20:36.627-05:002011-01-27T16:20:36.627-05:00So I am to hate my family as commanded in Luke 14:...So I am to hate my family as commanded in Luke 14:36 or am I to love them less than Christ as commanded in Matthew 10:37?<br /><br />And how does this fit in with Jesus' teachings in Matthew 5:<br /><br />43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1757445565680555472011-01-27T16:12:28.413-05:002011-01-27T16:12:28.413-05:00Pastor Dusman,
When you finish a conversation wit...Pastor Dusman,<br /><br />When you finish a conversation with folks, do you give them a card or flyer to your church so that they could follow up with you?<br /><br />I'm speculating that many folks, if you don't extend them an invitation, will shortly forget their conversation with you.<br /><br />Of course, the converse is true as well, even if you gave them a card to your church with a map and time of service, they'll still probably throw away the card and forget their conversation with you.<br /><br />Oh well.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-6267258293570699892011-01-27T16:05:10.761-05:002011-01-27T16:05:10.761-05:00Great report.
Took me back to the days of my Midd...Great report.<br /><br />Took me back to the days of my Middle Eastern Studies.<br /><br />I remember years ago after 9/11, having interesting conversations with many. The Sunday after, a couple was visiting from the States and I addressed some of the inconsistencies in the arguments of those who would have us treat the situation in a way that would let Islam completely off the hook.<br /><br />I remember saying then what I will still say today that a religion born in blood for the conquest of the world by blood must remain true to that idea.<br /><br />I said how I could have put on a screen, comments from Khomeni (sp) – for those who don't remember, the one who overthrew the Shah of Iran, and Bin Laden and if you did not know the dates, you could not tell the difference.<br /><br />Legitimate grievances aside, and there are some. Islam is forever crippled by the fact as Khomeni reminded his followers, the Prophet founded the perfect society and nothing or no one can improve upon it.<br /><br />I love the discussion on pantheism which is basically the default religious belief of most Atheists even if they cannot see it. It was basically Nietzsche's default religious system.<br /><br />Keep up the mission of witness in the power of the Spirit concerning Jesus Christ.GREVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10415494137313565242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-162985886248579642011-01-27T15:07:35.307-05:002011-01-27T15:07:35.307-05:00"Another episode in Pastor Dusman's '...<i>"Another episode in Pastor Dusman's 'How Not to Make Friends but Influence People'. :P</i><br /><br />:-)>Dusmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18050174688923887698noreply@blogger.com