tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post6358085365800781044..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Devil-may-careRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-58702790521633336212008-04-18T14:32:00.000-04:002008-04-18T14:32:00.000-04:00---“But is a love that is guaranteed by the action...---<BR/>“But is a love that is guaranteed by the actions of the one being loved real<BR/>love, or puppetry?”<BR/>---<BR/><BR/>This Arminian argument never made sense to me. Suppose that I create Love Potion # 9 or whatever, and it works. I use it on a girl, and she falls in love with me. How is that not "real" love? She feels love, and she behaves in that manner, etc. There is nothing distinguishing that love from a "different kind" of love if you could examine it empirically. The emotions she experiences are identical.<BR/><BR/>I mean, let's change it around a bit. Suppose that I find out that a girl likes flowers, so I buy her flowers. I find out that she likes chocolates, so I buy her chocolates. I find out she likes reading "Gone With the Wind" every year, so I Google it and memorize as much of the plot as possible so we have something to discuss. How is my doing these actions (which are not actions I would do under any other circumstances) any different than my creating a Love Potion # 9? I am making myself desireable to another person in both instances.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps one would claim that the potion would be irresistible and therefore that's the problem. However, if I knew exactly what a girl wanted and I was able to do exactly what she wanted, how would I be any less irresistible to her?<BR/><BR/>Perhaps one would claim that she didn't decide to take the potion, so you're forcing her to love you against her will. But A) does anyone actually have any choice over what they love in the first place? and B) since the potion changes her so that she then loves me, it is not "against her will" in the first place. The love comes from the alteration of her will such that I become irresistible to her. (And, I might note, that in Calvinism this act of regeneration is actually <I>fixing</I> that which was broken; i.e., if we weren't sinners God would be the most desireable thing for us by default.)<BR/><BR/>So, as I said, this whole objection that love must be free to be real has never made sense to me.Peter Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11792036365040378473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-47928609586288193252008-04-18T13:19:00.000-04:002008-04-18T13:19:00.000-04:00I skimmed through the post, but I'd like to add so...I skimmed through the post, but I'd like to add something (if it hasn't been said already).<BR/><BR/>The reason why people spend eternity in hell is because they keep sinning by cursing God. The full extent of their evil nature is unleashed, and after that happens, it will be quite apparent that they do indeed deserve eternal conscious punishment.Saint and Sinnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14166699860672840738noreply@blogger.com