tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post6020208808247163098..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Parsing the Olivet DiscourseRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-2860974066523025582014-10-16T15:44:59.064-04:002014-10-16T15:44:59.064-04:00Jesus is answering a question about the Second Tem...Jesus is answering a question about the Second Temple. The Herodian Temple. That's the context. That's the frame of reference. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-19778447804709926452014-10-16T15:42:10.353-04:002014-10-16T15:42:10.353-04:00So you're trying to shoehorn Mt 24 into your i...So you're trying to shoehorn Mt 24 into your interpretation of the 7-year-tribulation in Revelation. One problem with that is that I've seen dispensationalists complain about amils "going outside the text" to support or supply their interpretation. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-88541789973383830002014-10-16T15:39:44.951-04:002014-10-16T15:39:44.951-04:00Actually, I've made a different point. I think...Actually, I've made a different point. I think it's unreasonable to demand that we harmonize the gospels. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-555858979953574292014-10-16T15:00:09.660-04:002014-10-16T15:00:09.660-04:00I've seen you make the point regarding gospel ...I've seen you make the point regarding gospel harmonization that a critic has to prove there are no reasonable harmonizations in order to prove a conflict. Isn't that your standard here? I have to show that there's some possible purpose for "leaving town" that is consistent with a futurist interpretation. You have to show that there's no possible scenario in which fleeing to the mountains is beneficial. I'm not trying to prove the entire futurist system. Just make this one point.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05256949774839675735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-55150239409191246002014-10-16T14:53:10.814-04:002014-10-16T14:53:10.814-04:00How so? What about the fact that you're to fle...How so? What about the fact that you're to flee to the mountains quickly when you see the abomination should change the way I interpret Daniel 9? I see Daniel as giving us certain information about the abomination and Matt 24 providing additional details. I don't see the conflict.<br /><br />I'm trying to make a limited point that within a futurist interpretation there are reasonable ways in which fleeing to the mountains makes sense. And regarding Daniel 9 it's standard to see Daniel's 70th week as a seven year period during which the Antichrist is active. Why is that out of bounds for a futurist interpretation? What details am I sidelining? You don't think think a 7 year tribulation can possibly be harmonized with Matt 24?Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05256949774839675735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-46634572063036750212014-10-16T13:05:32.042-04:002014-10-16T13:05:32.042-04:00You're not allowing the description in *Matthe...You're not allowing the description in *Matthew* to supply the context. And you're not allowing *Matthew* (or Christ) to interpret Dan 9. <br /><br />Rather, you just assume that you know what Dan 9 means, what it refers to, and you use that to sideline the descriptive details in the Olivet Discourse. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-47197543278710538462014-10-16T02:50:53.662-04:002014-10-16T02:50:53.662-04:00i) I think Daniel 9 and Matt 24 refer to the same ...i) I think Daniel 9 and Matt 24 refer to the same abomination. The roman sacking doesn't fit the description in Daniel. The ruler makes a seven year covenant with Israel and breaks it half way through. He then puts an end to sacrifice for 3 1/2 years before being destroyed himself. <br /><br />ii & iii) The Antichrist performs his abomination and turns on the Christians and Jews. He begins killing as many as possible. Before he has a chance to hunt down those in the mountains he receives word of hostile forces to the east and north and leaves with most of his forces. There are no longer enough troops to find those who fled.<br /><br />But again I don't have to know exactly how God will use those mountains. It could be some sort of miraculous protection. Also there's no promise that everyone who flees to the mountains will be saved. But it at least gives you a better chance than staying in the city. Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05256949774839675735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-45970985540843517282014-10-15T18:37:53.498-04:002014-10-15T18:37:53.498-04:00i) If you're defending a futurist rather than ...i) If you're defending a futurist rather than preterist interpretation of this verse, then you need to explain why Christ's warning and/or Dan 9:27 has reference to a distant future Antichrist rather than the Roman sacking of Jerusalem. <br /><br />ii) Assuming that the Antichrist is a world ruler, how would the mountains around Judea protect God's faithful? <br /><br />iii) Actually, it's reasonable to ask if what was a good idea in the 1C would still be a good idea in the 21C and counting. Taking refuge in the hill country to wait out the Romans makes sense in a way that a very different timeframe does not.<br /><br />Our predator drones have killed lots of Taliban mountain men. So I think your comparison backfires. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-57450335079172063612014-10-15T18:18:13.108-04:002014-10-15T18:18:13.108-04:00i) They're to flee when they see the abominati...i) They're to flee when they see the abomination. If the Antichrist is the one doing the abominating as in Daniel 9:27 it makes sense they're fleeing from him. <br />ii) The mountains around Judea. Matthew 24:16<br />iii) I don't need to know exactly why fleeing to the mountains is a good idea if God says that it is. But people in the mountains are certainly harder to track down as seen in Afghanistan. Also it doesn't seem like the Antichrist has time to track down every last person. He's constantly fighting civil wars Daniel 11:44. So it makes sense that he'd start with the people who are easier to find. Maybe he then runs out of time and is needed elsewhere. Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05256949774839675735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-29243294032815942062014-10-15T17:13:53.569-04:002014-10-15T17:13:53.569-04:00i) Where does the Olivet Discourse indicate that f...i) Where does the Olivet Discourse indicate that fleeing to the mountains will protect refugees from the Antichrist? <br /><br />ii) Given, moreover the global, futurist interpretation, what mountains are we talking about? Mountains around Jerusalem? <br /><br />iii) Again, in a futurist context, what about aerial reconnaissance to hunt down refugees? stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-53333165106772131352014-10-15T16:58:41.076-04:002014-10-15T16:58:41.076-04:00From the persecution of the Antichrist. The abomin...From the persecution of the Antichrist. The abomination of desolation is when he reveals who he is and begins more active persecution. Daniel 9:27Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05256949774839675735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-11886202835104565922014-10-15T16:26:45.531-04:002014-10-15T16:26:45.531-04:00Safe from whom? Who (or what) are they hiding from...Safe from whom? Who (or what) are they hiding from? Divine judgment? Persecutors? stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-13630103594653621082014-10-15T16:16:59.570-04:002014-10-15T16:16:59.570-04:0013) On a global, futurist interpretation, it's...13) On a global, futurist interpretation, it's hard to see how leaving town would protect you from end-of-the-world events. Surely there's nowhere to run under that scenario. And the time of year would be irrelevant. <br /><br />Except that we're told ahead of time the safe places to hide. Matthew 24:16 and Daniel 11:41. So there will be safety in the mountains especially in Edom, Moab, and the most of Ammon.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05256949774839675735noreply@blogger.com