tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post5874445048838221096..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: When did Rome leave the church?Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-72961092319024167812015-02-18T08:04:21.799-05:002015-02-18T08:04:21.799-05:00No. I don't think Augustine believed in sola e...No. I don't think Augustine believed in sola ecclesia. He did, however, hold to the Western four-fold view of scripture. (Ligon Duncan pointed out that Augustine responded to Manichees by appealing to it.) This Western hermeneutic eventually led to sola ecclesia.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-34619638256556660152015-02-18T06:17:30.675-05:002015-02-18T06:17:30.675-05:00Jim are you suggesting that Augustine believed in ...Jim are you suggesting that Augustine believed in Sola ecclesia? All the evidence shows that he was a firm believer of testing every doctrine against scripture, even though he was not always consistent in carrying this out. Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17686738325565738419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-70235214795152320872015-02-17T22:15:55.990-05:002015-02-17T22:15:55.990-05:00My reply to the question "When did Rome ceas...My reply to the question "When did Rome cease to be Christian?" is when was Rome ever Christian? "Prior to the invention of the Papacy" won't suffice since "Rome" was never Rome without it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04249673269230269465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-18136468668377638982015-02-17T20:55:49.234-05:002015-02-17T20:55:49.234-05:00Yes it is although I'd place it closer to 1700...Yes it is although I'd place it closer to 1700 years ago. The seed of the problem was planted by then if the manifestation if the theological errors and practical abuses had centuries yet to develop. The Western Church certainly contributed positively, but I'd say the hermeneutic and subsequent stand on revelation were the start of it.<br /><br />The Reformation started by changing in the reverse order: the abuses were noted, the stand on revelation addressed, and a better hermeneutic developed that was more like that of the Antioch of old. It's fair to note that the abuses couldn't have been noted without something of a corrective on the other two already brewing in the back of the Reformers' minds, but it could also be noted that these weren't so much developed at that time as it was simply obvious that Rome's teaching and practice didn't match any sort of reading of scripture. So I'm using the corrective characteristics of the Reformation as my cue as to where Rome departed.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-59262566483916504962015-02-17T17:23:42.780-05:002015-02-17T17:23:42.780-05:002000 years is a long time Jim!2000 years is a long time Jim!John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-87098542853507311332015-02-17T14:51:12.505-05:002015-02-17T14:51:12.505-05:00Blaming Gregory VII is much tidier though. In crea...Blaming Gregory VII is much tidier though. In creating a power that could oppose imperial interference in ecclesiastical matters and go on a clean-up of the preceding couple of centuries of flagrant abuses he created a doctrinal monster.James Dowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11058389162481491681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-47240640683776160912015-02-17T14:00:20.703-05:002015-02-17T14:00:20.703-05:00It does seem like a long, painful, drawn-out depar...It does seem like a long, painful, drawn-out departure. I'm going to say that incipient Romanism was the acceptance of the Western traditional hermeneutic. Augustine is the example at this point where he had pretty good theology with a bad hermeneutic. Antioch is the counterexample with a good hermeneutic and Nestorianism. But I think it was the application of the four-fold hermeneutic of Rome to the ends of sola ecclesia that ultimately did them in, for therein is the means by which all the doctrinal and functional abuses were ushered in.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-34845387838395904442015-02-17T12:39:53.781-05:002015-02-17T12:39:53.781-05:00But Rome is unique in that it was the first, most ...But Rome is unique in that it was the first, most prideful, and most harmful. John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-34252928659499920112015-02-17T12:28:42.494-05:002015-02-17T12:28:42.494-05:00Lots of denominations have departed from the faith...Lots of denominations have departed from the faith once and for all delivered unto the saints. <br /><br />Rome isn't alone.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231394164372721485noreply@blogger.com