tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post5053546141615258371..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: John 21:24 And John's AuthorshipRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-55586235276928212892017-09-04T17:48:05.881-04:002017-09-04T17:48:05.881-04:00Though Hill cites 2 Corinthians 10:13 as an exampl...Though Hill cites 2 Corinthians 10:13 as an example of a plural of modesty in Paul's letters, I think a better example is verse 11. In verse 10, Paul had been singled out for criticism. Paul responds to those criticisms with "we". I doubt that he was including anybody else with him, since the criticisms are of such a personal nature. It does seem, then, that Paul is using the plural to refer to himself alone.<br /><br />And I should add something about John 21:25. If verse 24 is using a plural of modesty ("we") to refer to the author, the Beloved Disciple, and John is affirming his confidence about his testimony rather than suggesting that other people are confirming what he's said, then verse 25 makes more sense. There's no move from a group in verse 24 to the singular "I" in verse 25. Rather, there's a focus on one person the whole way through.<br /><br />A potential obstacle to understanding or accepting the concept of a plural of modesty is how accustomed we are to hearing of a plural of majesty. If a king refers to himself as "we", we tend to think of that in terms of a high self-image rather than in terms of modesty. But the fact that a plural can be used to refer to one individual in an immodest way doesn't mean that it can't be used in a modest way as well. A "we" does, after all, take the focus off of "I", even though it includes the I. There is an element of modesty to switching from "I" to "we" in some contexts. What we should do is expand the range of options for how "we" can be used. It does sometimes suggest immodesty when used to refer to one person. But it can also be used for the purpose of modesty. We have to judge case-by-case.Jason Engwerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17031011335190895123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-11785355099827023772017-09-04T08:43:17.207-04:002017-09-04T08:43:17.207-04:00You can read Hill's chapter online here.You can read Hill's chapter online <a href="http://www.academia.edu/30774599/_The_Authentication_of_John_Self-Disclosure_Testimony_and_Verification_in_John_21_24_pages_398-437_in_The_Language_and_Literature_of_the_New_Testament_Essays_in_Honor_of_Stanley_E._Porters_60th_Birthday_edited_by_Lois_K._Fuller_Dow_Craig_Evans_and_Andrew_Pitts_Leiden_Boston_Brill_2017_" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Jason Engwerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17031011335190895123noreply@blogger.com