tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post4319840371092425315..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: “Pope Francis” Condemns Air ConditioningRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-9181975539197432372015-06-20T13:29:33.177-04:002015-06-20T13:29:33.177-04:00I see. Thanks.I see. Thanks.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231394164372721485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-18066481417727984562015-06-20T11:59:24.317-04:002015-06-20T11:59:24.317-04:00Couple of things CR. Your first comment following ...<br />Couple of things CR. Your first comment following the original article was:<br /><br /><i>Rome has already anathematized the Gospel. The other stuff is pretty secondary in my mind.</i><br /><br />Of course that's true, and if your intention is to avoid all things Roman Catholic, I suppose you could do that. My intention in this OP was to make fun of this pope. He begs for it. He is ridiculous, and I try to say so. I say this to a Triablogue audience that is largely composed of well-educated Reformed believers. But the people who read my stuff and are interested in it are folks, I assume, who have some interaction with Roman Catholicism in their lives -- at a personal level (they are not people who by and large deal with "Rome" in its official capacity).<br /><br /><br />So I said,<br /><br /><i>Hi CR: When you say "anathematized the Gospel", that's true, but most Roman Catholics don't have a clue about that. In engaging Roman Catholics, I think it's very important to engage them in terms of "what's current" (whatever the "Magisterium du jour" brings up).</i><br /><br />And here I have in mind that these well-educated Reformed believers are going to be discussing personal matters of Roman Catholicism with other persons that they may know involved with Roman Catholicism. <br /><br />I don't go to talk to my mother and say, "Rome anathematized the Gospel". That just doesn't wash at a lot of levels. Now, if I say to her, "what do you think of this pope condemning air conditioning", then really makes her feel creepy about Roman Catholicism at a lot of levels. And that's what I want. Even though it is a "secondary" issue, as you put it. <br /><br /><br />To your most recent comment:<br /><br /><i>Are every-day Roman Catholics familiar with Pope Pius XII and Humani Generis?</i><br /><br />No, but I'm sure that most Triablogue readers are familiar with what I'm talking about. <br /><br /><i>I guess I'm not following your concern with my initial comment. It looked to me like you were sounding off on the papal condemnation of A/C via an encyclical, which is unarguably insipid in my mind, and I thought to myself: "Yeah, that's pretty stupid and petty, but when Rome has already officially condemned the Gospel, and those who believe it...well...what do you expect?"</i><br /><br />Yes, no kidding, it's stupid; sometimes there's not much more to do than to make fun of something. <br /><br /><br /><i>Then you seemed to sort of offer a corrective, and now we've exchanged messages a couple of times, and I still don't understand the intent of the apparent corrective. </i><br /><br />Just that it's a big world, and your initial comment was very, very narrow. If you want to avoid all things Roman Catholic, then there are better ways to do it than reading my blog posts making fun of this post. <br /><br />But if you want to engage Roman Catholics at some (apologetic) level, then you really need to have more information at hand than simply "Rome anathematized the gospel".John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-69008996225057144352015-06-19T18:37:25.855-04:002015-06-19T18:37:25.855-04:00Are every-day Roman Catholics familiar with Pope P...Are every-day Roman Catholics familiar with Pope Pius XII and Humani Generis?<br /><br />I guess I'm not following your concern with my initial comment. It looked to me like you were sounding off on the papal condemnation of A/C via an encyclical, which is unarguably insipid in my mind, and I thought to myself: "Yeah, that's pretty stupid and petty, but when Rome has already officially condemned the Gospel, and those who believe it...well...what do you expect?"<br /><br />Then you seemed to sort of offer a corrective, and now we've exchanged messages a couple of times, and I still don't understand the intent of the apparent corrective. <br /><br />I hope I'm not being obtuse.<br />CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231394164372721485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-78897168323438095012015-06-19T07:25:25.591-04:002015-06-19T07:25:25.591-04:00CR, there are two different levels of things. What...CR, there are two different levels of things. What I'm saying is, you have to talk with every-day Roman Catholics at a level they understand. None of these folks have heard the word "justification" in centuries. Nor do most of them know what the Council of Trent said. So when Protestants bring up that Trent Anathematized the Gospel, we might as well be speaking a foreign language that they don't know. That particular sentiment is not a "warning for the lifeboats". (I'm not sure if there's an analogous thing to say to them at that point). It's not something that's going to prompt them to think about how bankrupt their "Church" is. It just doesn't register, it has no context. <br /><br />I'll relate my own experience, but I know of others as well. It's not enough to say "the ship is sinking" without saying why. I literally had to investigate every single major doctrine, and discount it, before I could leave RCism. If you take it seriously, the pressure against leaving is immense. <br /><br />So the Roman Catholic apologetic these days is to look at any given Protestant doctrine, and then say, "we're not so different from this, we just offer 'the fullness' of this doctrine". Keith Green had a line in his "Song from the Devil": "I mix a little truth with every lie, to tickle itching ears". Calvin also said that the papacy "pollutes every good doctrine". Roman Apologetics are like that -- it is a full-body-length leech -- it must be carefully separated out from what is true. And that requires a lengthy process of explanation, on whatever topic you are discussing at the moment. John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-31513325646392017072015-06-18T21:31:58.431-04:002015-06-18T21:31:58.431-04:00Hi John,
Isn't such an approach akin to engag...Hi John,<br /><br />Isn't such an approach akin to engaging "clueless" passengers about the proper arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic even as she's slipping beneath the icy waters of the North Atlantic? <br /><br />Shouldn't they be urgently warned to head for lifeboats instead, because they're in extreme peril, even though the band plays on?<br /><br />Maybe I'm misunderstanding. CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231394164372721485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-60555751464958577542015-06-18T17:08:48.019-04:002015-06-18T17:08:48.019-04:00Hi CR: When you say "anathematized the Gospel...Hi CR: When you say "anathematized the Gospel", that's true, but most Roman Catholics don't have a clue about that. In engaging Roman Catholics, I think it's very important to engage them in terms of "what's current" (whatever the "Magisterium du jour" brings up).John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-45172001555270301472015-06-18T16:59:13.500-04:002015-06-18T16:59:13.500-04:00Rome has already anathematized the Gospel. The ot...Rome has already anathematized the Gospel. The other stuff is pretty secondary in my mind.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231394164372721485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-58333583180965849992015-06-18T16:33:01.729-04:002015-06-18T16:33:01.729-04:00... the "Palace of the Holy Office", wha...<i> ... the "Palace of the Holy Office", whatever they use that for.... </i><br /><br />Must have something to do with torture.<br />John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-71234764837248755792015-06-18T16:19:09.276-04:002015-06-18T16:19:09.276-04:00With the level of imagery these days, it's act...With the level of imagery these days, it's actually pretty easy. I do some snooping on my company's competitor's manufacturing plants so I'm used to being able to tell what equipment is what. We can count exhaust stacks, for example and know how many ovens they are using and how much liability they have with regards to the EPA. We can determine the size of the HVAC units, and estimate how many office personnel comprise their overhead. You can count cars in the parking lot and tell about how many people they employ altogether. I guarantee they're doing the same thing with us. So with the Vatican, you can see when the units went in as well as find articles confirming it. There is a monstrous unit they just installed last year over at what they call the "Palace of the Holy Office", whatever they use that for.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-81404079523285766942015-06-18T15:27:06.297-04:002015-06-18T15:27:06.297-04:00It would be a fitting punishment for the sex-abuse...It would be a fitting punishment for the sex-abuse-bishops to have to go on popemobile-pulling duty. Of course, there are far too many of those bishops, so they'd have to think up some other energy-saving chores as well. John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-61785283124141561342015-06-18T15:25:43.834-04:002015-06-18T15:25:43.834-04:00Jim, that's hard-core to be able to see HVAC u...Jim, that's hard-core to be able to see HVAC units from satellite images. <br /><br />Aside from that, this is an Encyclical, so "Francis" intends to see that this gets done!John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-4537402819279560972015-06-18T14:01:09.607-04:002015-06-18T14:01:09.607-04:00Not well. For example, it may not be a big issue,...Not well. For example, it may not be a big issue, but I'm not fond of mentioning current or past church leaders during service prayers.SGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12373421930200353769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-91650609630384160422015-06-18T14:00:40.751-04:002015-06-18T14:00:40.751-04:00He's perhaps going to an acolyte-drawn bubble-...He's perhaps going to an acolyte-drawn bubble-top Popemobile?Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-32506407552212761282015-06-18T13:49:40.805-04:002015-06-18T13:49:40.805-04:00In the same encyclical, Francis condemns cars. In the same encyclical, Francis condemns cars. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-80255199437062071612015-06-18T13:44:11.456-04:002015-06-18T13:44:11.456-04:00From what I read, much of the Vatican isn't ai...From what I read, much of the Vatican isn't air-conditioned, but I know the library is climate-controlled, and it looks like they just put a new air system in the Sistine Chapel a couple of years ago. Going to Google Earth, you can locate several external HVAC units around buildings at the Vatican. So, I guess they have plans to shut all those down now? I doubt it.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-69564033001739513092015-06-18T13:11:47.106-04:002015-06-18T13:11:47.106-04:00How is the whole scripture/tradition thing impacti...How is the whole scripture/tradition thing impacting your take on Orthodoxy? Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17686738325565738419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-33820494297040927342015-06-18T13:01:43.204-04:002015-06-18T13:01:43.204-04:00I might. I've got a lot of reading to do but ...I might. I've got a lot of reading to do but as it is now, the ethnocentricy of the few churches I've attended crept up into sermons quite often to the point of heresy. There were two priests who were learned and focused solely on the gospel but one was visting from NYC and the other sadly preferred to go back to a village due to internal politics. The latter particularly got to me.SGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12373421930200353769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-21428348537106691072015-06-18T12:51:37.521-04:002015-06-18T12:51:37.521-04:00Thank you.Thank you.SGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12373421930200353769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-10839599952954366822015-06-18T12:16:57.852-04:002015-06-18T12:16:57.852-04:00For information about Eastern Orthodoxy, check in ...For information about Eastern Orthodoxy, check in with Jacob Aitken:<br /><br />http://realdialektik.blogspot.com/<br /><br />He's got some broad subject matter there, but he's also got quite a bit of interaction there with EO sources. John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-5313728686226732902015-06-18T12:11:34.006-04:002015-06-18T12:11:34.006-04:00Do you plan on leaving the Orthodox church SG? You...Do you plan on leaving the Orthodox church SG? You said the domino effect is continuing on your own church. Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17686738325565738419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-52069604931202199132015-06-18T12:06:21.351-04:002015-06-18T12:06:21.351-04:00To be honest, nothing deep and everything aestheti...To be honest, nothing deep and everything aesthetic within its tradition. I still like the mass and liked the confession but I'll admit that it's all based on emotion rather than intellect. Then learning how tradition and scripture are held in the same regard started a domino effect. Your writing about the papal tradition in particularl and the theological flip flopping turned me off what I would call an institution rather than church.<br /><br />The domino effect continues, now turned on my own church.. I'm actually Orthodox (Armenian), but was taught by Lebanese nuns during elementary school eons ago. Any good reading recommendations would be appreciated since I mostly run into Catholic sources arguing against Eastern or Oriental Orthodoxy.SGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12373421930200353769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-45057470361993974462015-06-18T10:40:10.869-04:002015-06-18T10:40:10.869-04:00Hi SG, thanks for your kind words. What things did...Hi SG, thanks for your kind words. What things did you used to like about the Roman Catholic Church? John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-68997229874194684872015-06-18T10:30:39.771-04:002015-06-18T10:30:39.771-04:00And the tropics...And the tropics...John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-39301453984840634722015-06-18T10:13:23.751-04:002015-06-18T10:13:23.751-04:00John, first off my condolances on the passing of y...John, first off my condolances on the passing of your wife, and second, I can't thank you enough for opening my eyes on the Catholic church. For every one thing that I liked about the church, there are 10 things to dislike and stuff like this is just baffling.<br /><br />I'd like to see them move the church to a place with an arid climate and preach this nonsense in the name of Christ.SGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12373421930200353769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-2152902089346936852015-06-18T10:13:17.638-04:002015-06-18T10:13:17.638-04:00Apparently, Pope Francis wants to kill people who ...Apparently, Pope Francis wants to kill people who live in the desert...Peter Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11792036365040378473noreply@blogger.com