tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post4138066133572914482..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: A Response To Vincent Torley On The Virgin BirthRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-32408904826692201312021-01-06T10:14:35.209-05:002021-01-06T10:14:35.209-05:00Yes, there's a network of miracles associated ...Yes, there's a network of miracles associated with the virgin birth (Elizabeth's recognition of the significance of Mary's pregnancy, the reaction of John the Baptist in Elizabeth's womb, etc.), which is why we need to include paranormal means of verifying the virgin birth, not just normal means of discerning it. Since the network of miracles in question is so widespread, it's more difficult to dismiss accordingly, especially given Luke's credibility in historical contexts, as discussed above.Jason Engwerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17031011335190895123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-31200598210445064652021-01-06T09:28:44.529-05:002021-01-06T09:28:44.529-05:00On Mary's "thinking Jesus was crazy,"...On Mary's "thinking Jesus was crazy," the text doesn't say that Mary specifically thought he was crazy. It attributes this idea to the group as a whole. As in any family strife, people can be there for various reasons. Mary could have gone along to try to defuse the situation or mediate, not because she shared the brothers' perspective. As for the brothers, we don't know of course exactly when they were told of the infancy stories. It might even have been after this point. Or they may have thought that Jesus was crazy because he was not preaching the kind of messianic reign they thought he would. Sibling jealousy obviously could play a part as well. The brothers were obviously all too human.Lydia McGrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00423567323116960820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-74241209508596766592021-01-06T09:26:04.220-05:002021-01-06T09:26:04.220-05:00Something I didn't manage to fit in in much de...Something I didn't manage to fit in in much detail in my Virgin Birth series (long as it was): If the stories about John the Baptist's birth told in Luke were circulating early, that indirectly confirms the Virgin Birth, as it would be a coincidence for Jesus' cousin to be conceived in an unusual way and for Zecharias to be telling this story about seeing an angel in the Temple at the same time that Mary was telling the story about conceiving virginally. And the same for Joseph attesting to having a dream telling him that Mary had conceived virginally. Obviously the skeptic is going to respond that the *entire* stories were made up and that whoever made up the infancy story in Luke for Jesus also made it up for John the Baptist. The point, then, is just to say that the statement that "Mary would have been the only one who would know," which I just heard from a Christian commentator again the other day on social media, is facile. Obviously if several of the other events occurred or even were told about at the time, they happened to people other than Mary in ways that were independent of anything Mary could control. And those other events fit together with the Virgin Birth--John the Baptist foretold to be the forerunner of the Messiah, Joseph reassured about Mary.Lydia McGrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00423567323116960820noreply@blogger.com