tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post2170063602318930074..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: The Santa warsRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-91235191087403091032012-12-11T11:07:58.540-05:002012-12-11T11:07:58.540-05:00Let's randomly say that kids lose their belief...<i>Let's randomly say that kids lose their belief in Santa around the age of 8 and their are pretty conscious by the age of 3.</i><br /><br />By "[they] are pretty conscious" I meant that that's around the time they start really being aware of their surroundings and really start developing as a person. I think you know what I mean.<br /><br /><i>He make </i>[made]<i> a rookie's mistake by walking into a punch. </i>ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-89588603600837456062012-12-11T07:59:24.669-05:002012-12-11T07:59:24.669-05:00There's so much to be concerned about when it ...<i>There's so much to be concerned about when it comes to letting kids watch cartoons with talking animals.</i><br /><br />Sure, but unlike those cartoons, kids are specifically taught by word or deed Santa is real. <br /><br /><i>But aren't you American (Filipino)? As such, aren't you culturally inside American culture at least to some significant degree? </i><br /><br />Yes. That's why I'm not dogmatic about the degree of danger Santa poses. But there's a fundamental difference when children are told Santa exists.<br /><br /><i>I never claimed otherwise.</i><br /><br />I know, I just said those thingS to head off any possible future objections and to make clear what I do believe (which you might also believe as well).<br /><br /><i>For one thing, this assumes a "child-like faith" in Santa and a "child-like faith" in God are somehow mutually exclusive. What if a child believes God sent Santa to bring them gifts on Christmas?</i><br /><br />That's precisely the root of the problem. It's the connection to God that makes it dangerous. A child may conclude that if one of God's purported servants doesn't exist, then maybe God HIMSELF might not exist. If we can ridicule the power of Santa (which may have been given to him by God), then why not God's powers as well?<br /><br /><i>A "child-like faith" in Santa would not be "wasted" if the kid grows out of his or her belief in Santa. Like most kids appear to do. </i><br /><br />And along with the belief in God too (sadly). I'm not saying that the child might be regenerate and lose it. However, belief in God is possible even by the unregenerate. In which case, a belief in God which could have been a stepping stone to real saving faith might be removed from a child.<br /><br /><i>Do you have good evidence which shows belief in Santa is the sole or at least leading cause of spiritual harm like undermining their faith in God or demonic influence?<br /></i><br /><br />But I do have Scriptural commands to expose the hidden works of darkness, lies and errors. It's no accident that the Christian parents and children children should be people of truth who aren't deluded (even if only for a "few" years. Let's randomly say that kids lose their belief in Santa around the age of 8 and their are pretty conscious by the age of 3. That means for 5 WHOLE years they are indoctrinated into a false belief system. <br /><br />to John:<br /><br /><i>He definitely seems to be annoyed!</i><br /><br />I am annoyed. Annoyed by Manny Pacquiao getting careless and over confident so that Juan Manuel Marquez was able to knock him out. Up until the knockout, Pacquiao was winning all the punching stats (including the power punches). He make a rookie's mistake by walking into a punch. <br /><br />And before someone mentions it, "Yes, I do think that watching boxing and MMA can (but not necessarily) have negative spiritual effects." *G*ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-82763760706285533012012-12-11T07:57:39.363-05:002012-12-11T07:57:39.363-05:00I don't have much time to respond so quickly.....I don't have much time to respond so quickly...<br />I don't have much more new to say so I'll pretty much be repeating myself. After that, we can end the conversation if no one else wants to pick it up.<br /><br />to Steve:<br /><i>When AP dives this far off the deep end, I don't think I have a pole long enough to fish him out of the pool. Only the Coast Guard can rescue him. </i><br /><br />I actually think my position of telling kids the truth about Santa and still having fun by pretending he exists is a moderate position. On the other hand...... "Santa" is an anagram of "Satan". *G*<br /><br />to rockingwithhawking:<br /><br /><i>But on the other hand, your description is hardly what seems to be common!</i><br /><br /><br />I didn't mean to imply that parents hound their kids about believing in Santa. What's common is the description I gave of Santa. The comparison with the Bogeyman was to point out that we would deem it cruel to not reveal to them that he's not real and that belief in non-existence entities may affect a child spiritually in ways we don't realise.<br /><br /><i>But the better question here is whether it's likely.</i><br /><br />How do you propose to gauge that likelihood? Since we're dealing with the eternal destiny of children don't you think siding on the error of caution is best? Catholic kids are taught that if you pray to St. Anthony, he'll help you find lost objects. St. Anthony might be in heaven now, but I doubt God allows him to help us find our missing keys. If anything supernatural ever does happen, it's more *likely* that demons "help" in finding those objects. Though the modern Santa myth comes from different streams of European tradition, it's similar to how Catholicism co-opted a pagan deities. I don't know enough about the different streams of origin but it also might be a holdover of Catholicism's superstition too.<br /><br /><i>1. Actually, I didn't say that. Lewis said that.</i><br /><br />You're right. I meant to say even you cited how someone (Lewis) claimed a child loved Aslan more than Jesus.<br /><br /><i>But keep in mind this was in response to your argument that kids exposed to fiction is fine so long as parents tell their kids the fiction isn't real.</i><br /><br />I didn't mean that there was absolutely no danger. Only that 1. at least the parents are better fulfilling their charge by telling their kids the truth. 2. Children are responsible for properly integrating the truths their parents tell them. If they persistently refuse to believe that Santa doesn't exist even though they were corrected, then that's their fault.<br /><br /><i>Of course, I'm sure we can say almost anything can become dangerous to some minority of people to some degree.</i><br /><br />Agreed. But we're dealing with children who don't know any better. They are often taught this lie as soon as possible. We're talking about innocent and vunerable children and not teenagers drinking who have pasted the age of discretion. FYI I'm not a teetotaler and enjoy Star Trek. I haven't read or watched the Potter books/movies.<br /><br />ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-44132692781532075282012-12-10T12:14:03.659-05:002012-12-10T12:14:03.659-05:00He definitely seems to be annoyed!He definitely seems to be annoyed!John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-36259498619878759692012-12-10T12:05:14.598-05:002012-12-10T12:05:14.598-05:00When AP dives this far off the deep end, I don'...When AP dives this far off the deep end, I don't think I have a pole long enough to fish him out of the pool. Only the Coast Guard can rescue him. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-32111616656280479762012-12-10T12:03:16.221-05:002012-12-10T12:03:16.221-05:00Well, I personally think Santa Claus is probably t...Well, I personally think Santa Claus is probably the Antichrist, maybe even the Devil Incarnate. The red flannel is a dead giveaway, while reindeer hooves and antlers clearly symbolize the horns and clovenfeet of the Archfiend. What could be more obvious? stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-3728314006871210202012-12-10T10:45:10.061-05:002012-12-10T10:45:10.061-05:00Anyway, if I understand you correctly, you agree b...Anyway, if I understand you correctly, you agree belief in Santa doesn't usually lead to spiritual hazards for kids (e.g. demonic influence, undermining their faith in God). Belief in Santa is benign for the majority of kids.<br /><br />But even in cases where belief in Santa might lead to spiritual harm, I would think it more likely there are confounding factors involved. Do you have good evidence which shows belief in Santa is the sole or at least leading cause of spiritual harm like undermining their faith in God or demonic influence? <br /><br />If not, then why should we think belief in Santa is so spiritually malignant to kids?rockingwithhawkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550503108269371174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-29830256066330324032012-12-10T10:40:52.027-05:002012-12-10T10:40:52.027-05:00"But the sad thing is that that child-like fa..."But the sad thing is that that child-like faith in God could be wasted on Santa."<br /><br />A "child-like faith" in Santa vs. God isn't a zero-sum game.<br /><br />A "child-like faith" in Santa would not be "wasted" if the kid grows out of his or her belief in Santa. Like most kids appear to do. <br /><br />And even adult Christians can have a "child-like faith" in God.rockingwithhawkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550503108269371174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-20840337496608194572012-12-10T10:05:54.962-05:002012-12-10T10:05:54.962-05:00"For example, many objections to Christianity..."For example, many objections to Christianity are based on ethical intuitions of 'goodness' and 'fairness' that resemble a Santa-like worldview more than Christ-like worldview. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a correlation between the rise of Santa belief in the early 20th century in America and the rise of Liberal Christianity at the same time (both re-enforcing each other in a spiral way)."<br /><br />Well, that's a big argument that obviously needs to be supported with further evidence. And it'd take us on a different path than the one we're currently on.<br /><br />"A child's faith in God isn't illegitimate merely because she hasn't familiarized herself with all the argument for and against the existence of God."<br /><br />I never claimed otherwise.<br /><br />"That's not to say it doesn't need to be cultivated and nurtured."<br /><br />I never claimed otherwise.<br /><br />"But the sad thing is that that child-like faith in God could be wasted on Santa."<br /><br />For one thing, this assumes a "child-like faith" in Santa and a "child-like faith" in God are somehow mutually exclusive. What if a child believes God sent Santa to bring them gifts on Christmas?rockingwithhawkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550503108269371174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-56474058261824472342012-12-10T10:05:27.904-05:002012-12-10T10:05:27.904-05:004. Of course, I'm sure we can say almost anyth...4. Of course, I'm sure we can say almost anything can become dangerous to some minority of people to some degree. There's arguably nothing wrong with alcohol but obviously there are alcoholics. <br /><br />There's arguably nothing wrong with hanging out with the guys and watching this or that sport but obviously there are people who have lost their jobs and destroyed their marriages as a result of their sports fanaticism such as by placing losing bets after mortgaging their houses or something like that. <br /><br />And, getting back to fiction, there's arguably nothing wrong with watching Star Trek or Harry Potter movies or books but obviously there are some extreme Trekkies and Harry Potterheads.<br /><br />In other words, if someone's belief in this or that fictional world starts to interfere in significantly negative ways with their sleeping habits, eating patterns, social obligations, chores or work, relationships, and so on, then obviously it's dangerous. Or I suppose on the offchance their belief in a fictional entity like Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny somehow begins to open them to demonic influence, then obviously it's dangerous. But I hardly think this is commonplace with Santa.<br /><br />"By God's design as well as a result of the Fall children are naturally religious and superstitious. I suspect the psychological dynamics are not only similar but related. I suspect that part of the reason Western Christians don't see more miracles in their lives is because that natural tendency has been repressed by the pervasive and subtle influence of secularism on all aspects of life and thought (including the church). Instead, we should be harnessing it for the glory of God and the good of men."<br /><br />Okay, sure, amen and all that, but I don't see what any of this has to do with the topic at hand.<br /><br />"Like I said above, I suspect the majority of children aren't noticeably affected in a negative way by the Santa myth. But they *might* be be affected in subtle ways we don't see because we live in our culture."<br /><br />Well, there are a number of beliefs and myths which "might" affect children "in subtle ways." Take kids who read comics about superheroes. Or kids who watch cartoons with talking animals. What if a kid starts to believe a talking cartoon animal is real despite his or her parents saying otherwise? What if this kid starts to think of this talking animal in the same way he or she thinks of the serpent in Eden or Balaam's donkey? What if watching talking cartoon animals could open the kid to demonic influence because the kid starts trying to talk to animals at the local zoo? There's so much to be concerned about when it comes to letting kids watch cartoons with talking animals.<br /><br />"Often it takes someone outside a culture to see just how embedded and influential an idea is."<br /><br />That's true as far as it goes. <br /><br />But aren't you American (Filipino)? As such, aren't you culturally inside American culture at least to some significant degree? <br /><br />I'm one of those hyphenated American minorities. So I think I can relate to and understand my ethnic culture to some degree. But by and large I wouldn't say I'm someone who can stand outside mainstream American culture.<br /><br />But maybe you'd say we don't have to stand entirely outside American culture to see a particular idea for what it is. I'd agree. But then that would seem to undercut your point at least somewhat.rockingwithhawkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550503108269371174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-49869564475816683882012-12-10T10:04:57.533-05:002012-12-10T10:04:57.533-05:00Annoyed Pinoy said:
"I believe my descriptio...Annoyed Pinoy said:<br /><br />"I believe my description *is* the common beliefs taught to children in the American and Western cultures where parents tell their kids Santa is real and gives presents to those who are good. For example, I have no problem with momentarily scaring children about the Bogeyman for ours and their fun's sake (not to mention to toughen them up emotionally). But if we persisted in continuing to do so all the while insisting that he's real, all that intense fear could open them up to demonic influence. That's why even though we may repeatedly try to scare them about the Bogeyman (often in response to their happy goading) we usually tell them in the end that he's not real."<br /><br />1. Hm, on the one hand, you say this is indeed what's common. But on the other hand, your description is hardly what seems to be common! I don't know anyone who pushes Santa on kids as resolutely as you've described in your Bogeyman analogy. It's not as if parents hound their kids about believing in Santa.<br /><br />2. Besides, even if some parents do pound Santa belief into their kids with such dogged tenacity, I don't see how this would likely open them up to demonic influence. Of course, you say "could" as if it's a possibility. Sure, I guess, anything is possible. But the better question here is whether it's likely. I don't think so. Why isn't it more likely the kid simply rejects Santa or thinks it's a dumb idea or whatever else if a parent is so persistent in repeatedly continuing to insist Santa is real to them?<br /><br />"Santa belief shouldn't get a free pass merely because it's 'positive' (which is itself begging the question)."<br /><br />1. Well, I don't know with whom you're shadow boxing, but I never claimed belief in Santa is "positive."<br /><br />2. Speaking for myself, if I ever have kids, I wouldn't teach them about Santa. But that's besides the point. All I'm saying is I don't think belief in Santa is as fatal or malignant as you think it is.<br /><br />"I said that some kids may love or have faith/trust/hope in Santa more than God. Even you said that some kids love Aslan more than Jesus. Don't you think that's spiritually dangerous???? At least those parent TRIED to convince their kids Aslan wasn't real (unlike some do for Santa belief)."<br /><br />1. Actually, I didn't say that. Lewis said that.<br /><br />2. But keep in mind this was in response to your argument that kids exposed to fiction is fine so long as parents tell their kids the fiction isn't real. I'm just saying one problem is it's possible some kids do think the fictional story is real or real to some degree despite all attempts to tell them otherwise.<br /><br />3. However, just because some kids might think the fiction is real to some degree doesn't necessarily mean therefore kids in general shouldn't read or watch fiction. Plus, as far as I can tell most kids grow out of whatever degree of belief they might have in Narnia or Santa anyway. This probably included the kid who apparently loved Aslan more than Jesus.rockingwithhawkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550503108269371174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-41622287475208789832012-12-10T04:32:39.127-05:002012-12-10T04:32:39.127-05:00Wow, "spiritual abortion"? I respect you...<i>Wow, "spiritual abortion"? I respect you, AP. But in this case I think you might really be overdoing it with such cataclysmic language.</i><br /><br />Like I said above, I suspect the majority of children aren't noticeably affected in a negative way by the Santa myth. But they *might* be be affected in subtle ways we don't see because we live in our culture. Often it takes someone outside a culture to see just how embedded and influential an idea is. For example, many objections to Christianity are based on ethical intuitions of "goodness" and "fairness" that resemble a Santa-like worldview more than Christ-like worldview. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a correlation between the rise of Santa belief in the early 20th century in America and the rise of Liberal Christianity at the same time (both re-enforcing each other in a spiral way).<br /><br />A child's faith in God isn't illegitimate merely because she hasn't familiarized herself with all the argument for and against the existence of God. That's not to say it doesn't need to be cultivated and nurtured. But the sad thing is that that child-like faith in God could be wasted on Santa. <br /><br /><br />ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-61976649127196927462012-12-10T03:55:08.835-05:002012-12-10T03:55:08.835-05:00. I would think other factors besides a child'...<i>. I would think other factors besides a child's belief in Santa would be more significant in demonic influence.</i> <br /><br />Of course. That goes without saying. That's why I used the word "potential".<br /><br /><i>... I doubt we're talking about the same Santa that most kids here happen to believe. </i><br /><br />I believe my description *is* the common beliefs taught to children in the American and Western cultures where parents tell their kids Santa is real and gives presents to those who are good. For example, I have no problem with momentarily scaring children about the Bogeyman for ours and their fun's sake (not to mention to toughen them up emotionally). But if we persisted in continuing to do so all the while insisting that he's real, all that intense fear could open them up to demonic influence. That's why even though we may repeatedly try to scare them about the Bogeyman (often in response to their happy goading) we usually tell them in the end that he's not real. Santa belief shouldn't get a free pass merely because it's "positive" (which is itself begging the question). <br /><br />I said that some kids may love or have faith/trust/hope in Santa more than God. Even you said that some kids love Aslan more than Jesus. Don't you think that's spiritually dangerous???? At least those parent TRIED to convince their kids Aslan wasn't real (unlike some do for Santa belief).<br /><br />By God's design as well as a result of the Fall children are naturally religious and superstitious. I suspect the psychological dynamics are not only similar but related. I suspect that part of the reason Western Christians don't see more miracles in their lives is because that natural tendency has been repressed by the pervasive and subtle influence of secularism on all aspects of life and thought (including the church). Instead, we should be harnessing it for the glory of God and the good of men.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-37214080983498660372012-12-10T03:11:45.354-05:002012-12-10T03:11:45.354-05:00Annoyed Pinoy said:
"Personally, I wouldn...Annoyed Pinoy said:<br /><br />"Personally, I wouldn't want to be party to the spiritual abortion of a child's infantile faith (Matt. 12:20 in conjunction with Mark 9:42)."<br /><br />Wow, "spiritual abortion"? I respect you, AP. But in this case I think you might really be overdoing it with such cataclysmic language. Are the stakes really this high? Is belief in Santa really as threatening as aborting babies?<br /><br />Imagine if Christian parents were to issue such dire language with their kids on other topics. If you don't eat your broccoli, then you'll rot and eventually die of malnutrition just like millions of starving African children!rockingwithhawkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550503108269371174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-47524923084992905032012-12-10T03:08:54.514-05:002012-12-10T03:08:54.514-05:00Annoyed Pinoy said:
"Believing in Santa can ...Annoyed Pinoy said:<br /><br />"Believing in Santa can potentially lead to being influenced by demons..."<br /><br />Hm, but so can a lot of other things. I would think other factors besides a child's belief in Santa would be more significant in demonic influence. Say if a child was raised in an occultic environment and also had a belief in Santa. How do you separate and distinguish the one from the other as the cause? I could be wrong but I think this is the sort of thing Steve has in mind when he talks about sociological studies.<br /><br />Also, we're talking about the commonly held belief about Santa that most kids in America have. Our mainstream cultural beliefs about Santa. But heck I guess it's possible some kid could believe in Santa in the same way he believes Catholic statues allegedly bleed tears or whatever. But if a kid believed Santa had these sorts of powers, then I doubt we're talking about the same Santa that most kids here happen to believe. Plus if a kid had these sorts of beliefs about Santa then I would think there'd again be other influences on the kid. Like maybe he is the sort of kid who has dabbled in the occult or somesuch.rockingwithhawkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550503108269371174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-62681155799966536402012-12-10T03:03:31.812-05:002012-12-10T03:03:31.812-05:00Annoyed Pinoy said:
"rockingwithhawking, not...Annoyed Pinoy said:<br /><br />"rockingwithhawking, not of they were read *as* fiction. As I said above, I like the idea of parents playing pretend with their kids about Santa so long as the parents make it clear that Santa (with all his thaumaturgical powers)doesn't really exist even though it's based on a real historical Christian."<br /><br />Thanks for the reply. <br /><br />Of course, much of this just goes back to the points Steve made above in response to what you've said.<br /><br />By the way, there are children who believe fictional characters like Aslan are real despite what parents say (and despite what authors say). I bet you could probably Google for this and find some stories. In fact, if I recall correctly, C.S. Lewis once responded to a letter from a concerned parent about their son who believed in Aslan. So much so that the little boy thought he loved Aslan more than Jesus. I think it was in his <em>Letters to Children</em> book.rockingwithhawkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550503108269371174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-11784896034489262112012-12-10T01:58:39.180-05:002012-12-10T01:58:39.180-05:00I see critics of Santa just pulling this out of th...<i> I see critics of Santa just pulling this out of their hat. They don't cite any sociological studies.</i><br /><br />1. If what I and others have said about the violation of Biblical laws and principles regarding the normative practice of the Santa tradition is true, then it would be wrong irrespective whether any child gets hurt.<br /><br />2. For myself, I can't believe that every instance of an atheist using Santa as a gateway to their atheism is false. Especially since this is the testimony of people who have come back to the faith. It's not like only non-Christians have doubts.<br /><br />3. As one of your <a href="http://www.triablogue.blogspot.com/2012/12/santa-stole-my-faith.html" rel="nofollow">quotes point out</a>, some kids are really "Big on truth" especially the really rational ones. Is it any wonder that some of these kids grow up to be scientists AND atheists (i.e. there might be a correlation).<br /><br />4. Personally, I wouldn't want to be party to the spiritual abortion of a child's infantile faith (Matt. 12:20 in conjunction with Mark 9:42).ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-8915519740662901042012-12-10T01:56:03.279-05:002012-12-10T01:56:03.279-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-24050388392658224422012-12-10T01:21:39.335-05:002012-12-10T01:21:39.335-05:00Steve I said that from the perspective of an adult...Steve I said that from the perspective of an adult.<br /><br /><i>And as far as that goes, I think little kids are far more likely to deify their parents. Dad is omniscient and omnipotent. Perfectly good. </i><br /><br />An observant child (even in the early years like 4 or 5) can tell that mom and dad aren't perfect. Yes, parents are to pattern God's fatherhood, but they always do so imperfectly. On the other hand Santa is presented as someone who can (virtually) infallibly tell which kids are good or bad (with the assumption that Santa is righteous enough to be able to justly mete out toys). Sounds like a god to me (whether finite or infinite) and so would constitute a violation of the first and second commandment.<br /><br />I'm sure you'd agree parents should warn children about the dangers of playing the Quija board EVEN if the kids DON'T think/believe it's real because it may open up a spiritual door to demons. Then why allow the Santa myth to be believed by kids. There are cases where children fall into the occult by playing with invisible friends (or what adults would call "spirit guides" etc.). I'll repost the example I gave above. <b><a href="http://www.cbn.com/media/player/index.aspx?s=/mp4/JTS19v2_WS&search=featuredclip&p=80&parent=0&subnav=false" rel="nofollow">HERE'S ONE EXAMPLE</a></b>. <br /><br />Believing in Santa can potentially lead to being influenced by demons who will try to lead them to atheism or an all-altruistic universalistic theism or at the very least economic materialism/consumerism.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-56140508929723807822012-12-10T01:07:09.487-05:002012-12-10T01:07:09.487-05:00rockingwithhawking, not of they were read *as* fic...rockingwithhawking, not of they were read *as* fiction. As I said above, I like the idea of parents playing pretend with their kids about Santa so long as the parents make it clear that Santa (with all his thaumaturgical powers)doesn't really exist even though it's based on a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas" rel="nofollow">real historical Christian</a>.<br /><br />ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-62395592636816224772012-12-10T00:11:23.780-05:002012-12-10T00:11:23.780-05:00Hi Annoyed Pinoy,
Just out of curiosity, would th...Hi Annoyed Pinoy,<br /><br />Just out of curiosity, would this also mean you'd be against kids reading, say, <em>The Chronicles of Narnia</em> because they might put their faith in Aslan?rockingwithhawkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550503108269371174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-7800110267840550782012-12-09T18:02:10.516-05:002012-12-09T18:02:10.516-05:00ANNOYED PINOY
"There are many similarities b...ANNOYED PINOY<br /><br />"There are many similarities between Santa and a false substitute for God (i.e. false gods)."<br /><br />Sounds suspiciously like something a very self-conscious adult would say, not at all how children think. <br /><br />And as far as that goes, I think little kids are far more likely to deify their parents. Dad is omniscient and omnipotent. Perfectly good. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-32033963997022185102012-12-09T16:36:45.575-05:002012-12-09T16:36:45.575-05:00ANNOYED PINOY
"But kids get empirical eviden...ANNOYED PINOY<br /><br />"But kids get empirical evidence for Santa's existence year after year with by half eaten cookies, by the culture around them affirming it, by sitting on his lap, by answered letter requests for certain toys etc. How is that comparable?"<br /><br />That's another hasty generalization. You're fabricating a uniform narrative about how families observes the Santa custom. I see critics of Santa just pulling this out of their hat. They don't cite any sociological studies. They either mention a few anecdotes, which they proceed to universalize, or they just hypothesize a worst-case scenario. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-80701752461494394422012-12-09T16:16:15.897-05:002012-12-09T16:16:15.897-05:00Clarification: I do believe that some of the Catho...Clarification: I do believe that some of the Catholic Saints may have performed some of the miracles attributed to them. But some of them are more/less plausible than others. The major difference between the past miracles of dead saints, or the alleged (modern) answered prayers by saints in heaven and that of the Saint Nick of Santa Claus myth is that (at least for kids) there's plenty of empirical evidence for his existence. Besides, he's believed to exist by Christians, non-Christians, and even some atheists (in the perception of those children who believe in him).ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-12056820387899639232012-12-09T15:32:58.660-05:002012-12-09T15:32:58.660-05:00BTW, what I meant was I wouldn't respond anymo...BTW, what I meant was I wouldn't respond anymore to John (B.). That was before I knew Steve had posted something. I'll leave it at that unless Steve posts something which I interpret he wants me to respond to. If I'm expected to respond, I'll have to do it past midnight Eastern Standard Time. Otherwise, I leave the last word to both John and Steve (if they post anything else).ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.com