tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post114965497450478241..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Caner On CalvinismRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1149723950947723272006-06-07T19:45:00.000-04:002006-06-07T19:45:00.000-04:00Dennis,Just as you've done at my blog, you have of...Dennis,<BR/><BR/>Just as you've done at my blog, you have offered nothing here but mere rant. Where is your interaction with Gene's comments? Where is your exegesis of the relevant texts of the debate?J. Matthew Clearyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08001238704997219741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1149719739412673682006-06-07T18:35:00.000-04:002006-06-07T18:35:00.000-04:00Same old Calvinist rant; "no one who opposes us re...<I>Same old Calvinist rant; "no one who opposes us really understands us!" Picture a teenage girl in tears sobbing out the above to her frustrated mother.</I><BR/><BR/>No, Dennis, it's more like: "Ergun Caner consistently violates the 9th commandment when discussing this issue."<BR/><BR/>As for rants and teenage girls. To be blunt, after reading your "response," I'm seeing you in pigtails at the moment. It's a rather amusing vision.<BR/><BR/><I>And then the twisting and turning to make the unpalatable palatable!</I><BR/><BR/>The gospel is the stetch of death to some the aroma of life to others. What exactly is your problem with this concept? By the way, when you can find Scripture to support "elected because I selected," by all means let us know where it is located. Who then is "twisting and turning." Let's put it this way, on a liberatarian theory of the will, you have to admit that people are converted by sheer chance, but, if you reject Open Theism, you have to admit this is a fixed reality. Ergo, you affirm real fatalism.<BR/><BR/><I>It's OK to believe God chose millions to go to Hell before they were born because He can do that and get away with it.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, He can, because life is his to do with as He pleases and all those who go are guity of sin. You're acting like they are innocent and don't deserve their fate.<BR/><BR/><I>What would be unthinkable (dooming the masses) in a human being becomes a wonderful manifestation of God's power to the Calvinist.</I><BR/><BR/>That's true, because God is not a man. Are you a Mormon?<BR/><BR/><I> This is because the Calvinist takes a horrible doctrine and wraps it a million words to hide the posion within.</I><BR/><BR/>Of course, the Arminian alternative is no different. Will you seriously argue that it is? Does not God create men for no other reason than to damn them to hell? What about the North American natives in the first century? Do you believe in more than one way of salvation or a post-mortem encounter?<BR/><BR/><I>And then in order to stifle the opposition, the Calvinist takes his handy little label maker and covers the bad guys with labels.</I><BR/><BR/>I assume this is in reference to the terms "Pelagian" and "Unitarian." Of course, this overlooks several things. First, it overlooks the arguments behind those assertions. It also overlooks the history of free will theology in Baptist circles. Socinianism wasn't far behind. Caner claims sympathy with the Radical Reformation. That's really rather amusing since Dr. Falwell is no Anabaptist when it comes to politics. However, I'll happily concede to his sympathes and include Dr. Caner in the ranks of Socinus, since it appears he is functionally Unitarian.<BR/><BR/>Sir, the objections you offer are all ethical, not exegetical.<BR/><BR/><I>When not sure exactly how the "enemy" is attacking, he uses all his magic labels.</I><BR/><BR/>Like saying I wrote a "rant" akin to a teenage girl sobbing? Dennis, if labeling is illicit for one of us, it is illicit for the other.GeneMBridgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10504383610477532374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1149701098019726832006-06-07T13:24:00.000-04:002006-06-07T13:24:00.000-04:00Let me translate Dennis' post:"You believe what we...Let me translate Dennis' post:<BR/><BR/>"You believe what we say you believe, and how dare you say otherwise!"eklektoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08258828442369684175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1149698128741449212006-06-07T12:35:00.000-04:002006-06-07T12:35:00.000-04:00Mr. Clough,If you can provide me with a clear cons...Mr. Clough,<BR/><BR/>If you can provide me with a clear consistent exegesis of the pertinent Scriptures and show me how your position is the correct and biblical one, I will be happy to re-evaluate my doctinal positions as a Calvinist. I somehow doubt your motive in writing your comments was a brotherly correction with scripture. In order to refute a position, you must understand it. At this point, you clearly do not understand it. Do you think your above comments are compelling to any sober-minded and thoughtful Christian? <BR/><BR/> --Jon UnyanAaron Millshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12330589396201996009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1149697033737785462006-06-07T12:17:00.000-04:002006-06-07T12:17:00.000-04:00Gene, thanks for this. I was close to tears with ...<B>Gene,</B> thanks for this. I was close to tears with gratitude to God for my salvation when I read this bit of yours: "it [the Gospel] calls upon us to recognize our guilt before God, and to see Christ’s sacrificial death as the sole remedy for our guilt and condemnation."<BR/><BR/>I find it amusing that Dr Caner willingly associates his name with the early Anabaptists since, as Diarmaid MacCulloch <A HREF="http://isbn.nu/014303538X" REL="nofollow">pointed out</A>, a fair number of them were real, live unitarians and mystical "just me and Jesus" types. (If this were teamPyro, I could ping Phil for his promised words about personal revelation, Gothard and Blackaby. Rats.)<BR/><BR/><B>Dennis Clough,</B> to the Calvinist, it's amazing that God rescues anybody. The sins of my own that I've commited with in the last 30 minutes were enough to send me to hell. (I'm not speaking generally, I have specific transgressions in mind.) The only thing more amazing than our triune God's rescue of anyone at all is that one of them is me.Jim Criglerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11437189788683651969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1149696206516718212006-06-07T12:03:00.000-04:002006-06-07T12:03:00.000-04:00Dennis,Uhmm... HAHAHAHAHAHAH!That was hilarious.B...Dennis,<BR/><BR/>Uhmm... HAHAHAHAHAHAH!<BR/><BR/>That was hilarious.<BR/><BR/>BTW, another good article at Tribalogue. Keep up the good work, Gene.Darelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06253863496769360853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1149690787396612402006-06-07T10:33:00.000-04:002006-06-07T10:33:00.000-04:00Dennis,I found your comment to be more of rant tha...Dennis,<BR/><BR/>I found your comment to be more of rant than Gene's article. Lot's of assertions, no real argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1149684284932326952006-06-07T08:44:00.000-04:002006-06-07T08:44:00.000-04:00Same old Calvinist rant; "no one who opposes us re...Same old Calvinist rant; "no one who opposes us really understands us!" Picture a teenage girl in tears sobbing out the above to her frustrated mother.<BR/><BR/>And then the twisting and turning to make the unpalatable palatable!<BR/><BR/>It's OK to believe God chose millions to go to Hell before they were born because He can do that and get away with it. What would be unthinkable (dooming the masses) in a human being becomes a wonderful manifestation of God's power to the Calvinist. This is because the Calvinist takes a horrible doctrine and wraps it a million words to hide the posion within. <BR/><BR/>And then in order to stifle the opposition, the Calvinist takes his handy little label maker and covers the bad guys with labels. When not sure exactly how the "enemy" is attacking, he uses all his magic labels. There, that will shut them up!<BR/>NOT!<BR/><BR/>Dennis CloughAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1149683056421543402006-06-07T08:24:00.000-04:002006-06-07T08:24:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.dogfreidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13751614375780546890noreply@blogger.com