DAVE ARMSTRONG SAID:
In your first message (Aug 12: 8:56AM) you disagreed with my using "Christian" in quotes. I honestly wasn't trying to insult all Protestant Christians. . . . if putting "Christian" in quotes was lacking in charity that is my fault, and I have and do apologize. (8-12-11, 2:46 PM, ET at CathApol)
Thanks Dave. I wrote those comments before I read yours in the other comment box. If I had read your comments first, I would not have written that. I am suitably humbled by your words and would appreciate being able to bow out gracefully from the conversation. I will not be participating in the discussion anymore. My humble apologies to any and all Christians who felt insulted by my words. (8-12-11, 4:42 PM ET)
This demonstrates a number of things:
I seem to have been the primary agent in persuading her that she was wrong in her language, which means that:
I was not acting as a "team player" and overlooking all fault on the catholic "side" simply because these are fellow Catholics (one of your major complaints, and a legitimate one).
We certainly know that you aren't a team player, Steve, since you defend masturbation so passionately (no pun intended).
ReplyDeleteWow, much as I laughed out loud at that comment, I hope you're going to confess it to your priest.
ReplyDeleteWhy in the world would I have to confess telling the truth? It was a joke, and all I said, substantively (the serious point underlying the witty remark), was that he defended it, not that he did it himself: a fact that is indisputable. Look it up.
ReplyDeleteI see that reports of your willful obtuseness and self-justification are not exaggerated.
ReplyDeleteRight. Hays defends masturbation. If you can't see that, then i am talking to the wind as usual around here. Be well.
ReplyDeleteArmstrong defends institutional pederasty.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why Dave so regularly raises the issue of masturbation. It clearly wasn't the subject of this post.
ReplyDeleteYou're the one defending grave sexual sin, Steve, not I. I have never countenanced sexual abuse from priests. I condemn it wholeheartedly as an abomination and an outrage, as my Church did.
ReplyDeleteThere is just as much (usually more) abuse, statistically, among Protestant clergy or any other large institution, as I have documented more than once.
But you sit there and defend what has always been regarded as grave sin, by Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, until recently. Luther doesn't defend it, Calvin doesn't; most historical Protestants have not. But you do.
You can lie all you want about myself, about my church, mock away and make an ass of yourself, and be a reprehensible example of a follower of Jesus Christ. You only hurt yourself. You're not harming my work at all: it is thriving more than ever, with two new book contracts in the works, etc.
DAVE ARMSTRONG SAID:
ReplyDelete“You're the one defending grave sexual sin, Steve, not I.”
When you have no argument, beg the question.
“There is just as much (usually more) abuse, statistically, among Protestant clergy or any other large institution, as I have documented more than once.”
Are you claiming that Evangelical pastors sodomize underage boys at the same rate as Catholic priests?
“But you sit there and defend what has always been regarded as grave sin, by Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, until recently.”
When you don’t have an argument, quote tradition.
“Tradition” is just a synonym for moral and intellectual freeloaders. The first person to say or do something often impacts future generations, even if the initial choice was a major miscalculation.
Seattle is built on a fault-line. Not a very prudent place to build a city. Of course, the original settlers didn’t know that.
Mexico City is built in the shadow of an active volcano. Not a very prudent place to build a city. Of course, the original settlers didn’t know that.
Repeating past mistakes is a vice, not a virtue.
“Luther doesn't defend it.”
Since you’re not Lutheran, that’s a disingenuous appeal.
“Calvin doesn't.”
Since you’re not Reformed, that’s a disingenuous appeal.
“Most historical Protestants have not.”
A thousand opinions don’t add up to a single truth.
You’re resorting to the same peer pressure that liberals and atheists deploy to bully the masses into accepting global warming or naturalistic evolution.
“You can lie all you want about myself, about my church…”
I’ve never lied about you or your church. However, that raises a striking conundrum: If I lie about a liar like you, or if I lie about your lying denomination, does that double negation mean I’m telling the truth?
Dave Armstrong said...
ReplyDelete"You're not harming my work at all: it is thriving more than ever, with two new book contracts in the works, etc."
As P. T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute."
I see you share his business ethic.
Wow! This blog is sick. I am proud to say that my protestant brothers and sisters would never defend grave sin. Jesus warned against people who did that.
ReplyDeleteIn which case, Jesus would warn against the papacy.
ReplyDeleteDAVE ARMSTRONG SAID:
ReplyDelete"You're the one defending grave sexual sin, Steve, not I...But you sit there and defend what has always been regarded as grave sin, by Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, until recently. Luther doesn't defend it, Calvin doesn't; most historical Protestants have not. But you do."
i) First of all, masturbation has nothing to do with this post. For some reason, Catholics like Armstrong suffer from a masturbatory fixation. That says a lot about what they have on their minds most of the time.
ii) In addition, Dave is so busy attacking Protestants that he has his back turned to developments in his own church:
"In the tradition of the Church’s teaching on masturbation, moral principles were drawn primarily from the interpretation of two Scriptural passages. The first, Genesis 38:8-10…Although onanism was traditionally used as a synonym for masturbation, Onan’s act could be more properly described as “withdrawal.” Moreover, from the biblical author’s point of view, Onan’s sin was his refusal to fulfill the important responsibility involved in the
levirate law (cf. Dt 25:5-10)," “Masturbation,” New Catholic Encyclopedia (CUA, 2nd ed., 2003), 9:315b.
"In common usage often taken to mean improperly completed intercourse or even masturbation. The word is taken from the story of Onan in the Book of Genesis…This was in accordance with the custom of Levirate marriage… Popular usage of the term onanism is based on the assumption that the evil for which the Lord took Onan’s life was his unchastity. This, however, is by no means clear from the text, in which his refusal to conform to the prescribed marriage custom can be seen as the wickedness that brought vengeance upon him. Consequently, no certain argument can be based upon this text to prove the sinful character of either improperly completed intercourse or masturbation. Evidence for this must be sought elsewhere," Ibid. 10:600a.
Steve:
ReplyDeleteIt is disturbing that a grown man like DA feels the need to talk about that particular subject so often, and to bring it up even when it is seemingly irrelevant to the conversation.
-TurretinFan