tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post9122169607740831689..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Idols & idolatryRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-55553394670378543322010-09-01T12:45:02.848-04:002010-09-01T12:45:02.848-04:00Brilliant treatment of Ex 20:4,5.Brilliant treatment of Ex 20:4,5.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-35950088329166096542010-09-01T10:40:06.920-04:002010-09-01T10:40:06.920-04:00There are two Catholic presuppositions in Marian p...There are two Catholic presuppositions in Marian prayer:<br /><br />i) Mary has maternal leverage with Jesus. <br /><br />i)i Mary can intercede for us because she has supererogatory merit. <br /><br />For instance, look at this prayer (see below); when you ask a friend to pray for you, is this how you frame your request?<br /><br />**************<br /><br />Heart of Mary, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, according to the heart of God, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, united to the Heart of Jesus, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, organ of the Holy Ghost, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, sanctuary of the Divine Trinity, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, tabernacle of God Incarnate, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, immaculate from thy creation, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, full of grace, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, blessed among all hearts, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, throne of glory, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, most humble, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, holocaust of Divine Love, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, fastened to the Cross with Jesus Crucified, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, comfort of the afflicted, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, refuge of sinners, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, hope of the agonizing, Pray for us. Heart of Mary, seat of mercy, Pray for us.<br /><br />Immaculate Mary, meek and humble of heart: R. Make our hearts according to the Heart of Jesus.<br /><br />Let us pray. O most merciful God, Who, for the salvation of sinners and the refuge of the miserable, wast pleased that the Most Pure Heart of Mary should be most like in charity and pity to the Divine Heart of Thy Son, Jesus Christ: grant that we who commemorate this sweet and loving Heart may, by the merits and intercession of the same Blessed Virgin, merit to be found according to the Heart of Jesus. Through the same Christ, Our Lord. R. Amen.<br /><br />http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/prayers/view.cfm?id=1121stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-41460768142814339152010-09-01T04:49:45.214-04:002010-09-01T04:49:45.214-04:00craigbenno1 wrote:
"A catholic theologian on...craigbenno1 wrote:<br /><br /><b><i>"A catholic theologian once said to me that the whole issue depends on what you mean by asking someone to pray for you? In their theology they don't see any difference in asking someone who is alive here to pray for them... and asking someone who is dead in this world to asking them...Its to do with how they perceive the state of the dead...The question to ask is whether they actually worship Mary as God or any other statue"</i></b> <br /><br />Prayer to the deceased wouldn't have to involve "worship as God" in order to be sinful. There's no reason to expect the deceased to hear our prayers, scripture and early patristic sources condemn attempts to contact the deceased, and the practice is absent in contexts in which we'd expect it to appear if it had been accepted in Biblical and early patristic times.<br /><br />We've covered this issue in depth in previous threads. See, for example, <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2008/06/attempts-to-make-biblical-case-for.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2010/06/desperate-to-justify-prayers-to-dead.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2009/06/prayer-to-dead-and-angels-in-psalms.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2010/06/roman-catholics-and-eastern-orthodox.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2010/06/lactantius-and-prayer-to-dead-again.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. There's a lot more that I haven't linked. Those who pray to Mary frequently do more than "asking Mary to pray for them". See the examples I cited <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2007/03/in-another-thread-orthodox-wrote.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and search the web for other examples of Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox prayers to Mary. Those prayers are far different than a discussion with a living person, in which you ask that person to pray for you.Jason Engwerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17031011335190895123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-41212824803110673222010-09-01T00:26:31.166-04:002010-09-01T00:26:31.166-04:00Great post Steve.
Regarding the issue of Mary an...Great post Steve. <br /><br />Regarding the issue of Mary and the saints... )which btw I'm not defending), A catholic theologian once said to me that the whole issue depends on what you mean by asking someone to pray for you?<br /><br />In their theology they don't see any difference in asking someone who is alive here to pray for them... and asking someone who is dead in this world to asking them...Its to do with how they perceive the state of the dead..<br /><br />Again I am saying I'm not defending this position... it does however make a difference to how we portray them praying to Mary and the saints.. its not that long ago that we dropped the term "Pray" from legal terminology towards a judge in that "I pray you will consider" or "I Beseech you will consider"<br /><br />The question to ask is whether they actually worship Mary as God or any other statue... or they use the statue as a method to remember...<br /><br />This is a whole different topic to making Mary co-redemptrix mother of God... !!shudders!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com