tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post8121675443657648508..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Abortion, election, and apostasyRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-68289454110708394562015-09-16T17:25:17.288-04:002015-09-16T17:25:17.288-04:00Unknown, for a more thorough search go to http://w...Unknown, for a more thorough search go to <b><a href="http://www.google.com/advanced_search" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/advanced_search</a></b><br /><br />In the "site or domain:" field type<br /><br />"triablogue.blogspot.com" <br /><br />Make sure to leave out "http://www." and only type "triablogue.blogspot.com"<br /><br />Then type keywords in the "Find pages with..." fields.<br />ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-12623636401487912212015-09-16T12:07:19.408-04:002015-09-16T12:07:19.408-04:00Actually, what would be more helpful is for you to...Actually, what would be more helpful is for you to take the initiative to inform yourself. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-76969889820083650082015-09-16T11:56:08.533-04:002015-09-16T11:56:08.533-04:00I don't see why you have to remove the comment...I don't see why you have to remove the comment when you could just provide the link that explains it. That would be much more helpful...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06656802686068825071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-13021802205044089022015-09-16T11:50:18.344-04:002015-09-16T11:50:18.344-04:00I've engaged the miscarriage canard before, as...I've engaged the miscarriage canard before, as well as theological voluntarism. Don't raise canned objections that this blog has already engaged. It's a lazy village atheist tactic to repeat objections while ignoring the replies. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-55259688456380654782015-09-16T11:41:37.840-04:002015-09-16T11:41:37.840-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06656802686068825071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-64845732922089013852015-09-16T08:01:02.525-04:002015-09-16T08:01:02.525-04:00If the blood of righteous Abel cried out to the Lo...If the blood of righteous Abel cried out to the Lord from the ground how must the blood of millions of aborted children ring in His ears.<br /><br />His judgment must be swelling as a great torrent held back only by His patience until the appointed hour when He judges in flaming vengeance those who practice lawlessness.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231394164372721485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-60341852955897060152015-09-16T04:52:15.022-04:002015-09-16T04:52:15.022-04:00I think Piper's #1 could have been more explic...I think Piper's #1 could have been more explicit in saying that since abortion is murder, those who have or perform abortions are murderers. So even if the babies go to heaven, the murderers are that much more guilty before God and deserving of greater punishment in hell. It's not only wrong to murder, but to promote murdering (i.e. pro choice). <br /><br />Also, if we are not only concerned about the eternal fate of infants but also adults, then we would be desirous to see people not perform/promote abortion and instead be saved. Being Pro Choice is antithetical to Pro Gospel, and vice versa. ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-16278554537355601372015-09-16T04:48:32.089-04:002015-09-16T04:48:32.089-04:00For a simple person like me, my simple answer to t...For a simple person like me, my simple answer to the challenging question is the following:<br /><br />#1 We don't know if all babies go to heaven when they die. Because of original sin all humans (including babies) are deserving of hell. There is good Biblical reason to believe that at least some infants go to heaven if they die in infancy, but there's nothing in Scripture whereby we can be sure that 100% of them do. That reality, coupled with the fact that God's ordinary and usual way of saving people is by exposing them to the gospel and bringing them to saving faith, is a reason why we should oppose abortion. God's preferred method is to use the means of hearing and believing the gospel to save people. If a person hasn't heard the gospel and hasn't believed/accepted/assented to it rationally and in an informed manner, then we should not have confidence that that person is going (or went) to heaven. If that's true for those who have reached the age of discretion, why take the risk and think that's not true for everyone or anyone who dies in infancy? That is, since we aren't sure that 100% of dying infants go to heaven.<br /><br />Since we don't know whether these babies are elect or not, and since we know God's normal way of saving the elect is by having them hear and believe the gospel, it's better to have them grow up and give them a chance to hear and respond to the gospel. God ordains both means and ends. We are not the ones to choose which means God will use, won't use or bypass altogether in any particular circumstance. For all we know, in some instances God may use the fact that a baby hasn't heard the gospel as a "means" not to save that particular baby. Conversely, in some instances God may use the hearing of the gospel to save a person who was once a baby.<br /><br />The issue seems to be analogous to missions. God sometimes uses the fact that a person lives and dies at a ripe old age never hearing the gospel to ensure that that person isn't saved. But we don't know that, and that's why we are motivated to send forth missionaries, since for all we know, that's the means God uses to save that person. Knowing also that God commands us to evangelize and informs us that's His usual means of saving people. <br /><br />God has orchestrated means and ends, causes and effects in such a way that though only (and always) what God ordains is what will happens, the means and causes are essential for the ends and effects to come about. They genuinely make a difference. Effects and ends will not come about without the necessary and sufficient causes and means. <br /><br />#2 abortion is contrary to God's revealed/prescriptive/preceptive. Even <i>if</i> we were assured that 100% of dying infants go to heaven, it's not a good reason to perform/promote abortion. That's a pragmatic and consequentialist approach to morality that's contrary to Christianity. Consequences factor into Christian morality, but Christian morality isn't consequentialist. Here's a link to my blogpost <a href="http://misclane.blogspot.com/2013/11/distinctions-in-gods-will-from.html" rel="nofollow"><b>[Six]</b> Distinctions in God's Will From a Calvinist Perspective</a><br /><br />#3 The challenging question/objection is sometimes used by atheists as well. When they do, then we can flip it around and point out that since you're going to die anyway, what's wrong with someone killing you and taking your belongings? If they argue that that takes away time they could have enjoyed the remainder of their lives, then that applies to the babies as well. Aborted babies are deprived of a life they could have enjoyed for decades. Sometimes longer than the adult atheists who make the objection, since babies have that much more time to live than those who have already reached adulthood. Babies have much more to potential time to lose. <br /><br />These reasons are in addition to John Piper's and Steve's good reasons why we should oppose abortion.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.com