tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post8104525469207348131..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: How cessationism denies the self-attesting authority of ScriptureRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-5143346082137648022013-11-16T18:02:42.627-05:002013-11-16T18:02:42.627-05:00I've collected most of Steve's recent post...I've collected most of Steve's recent posts on cessationism and continuationism in chronological order at the following blog:<br /><br /><b><a href="http://charismatamatters.blogspot.com/2013/08/steve-hays-on-cessationism.html" rel="nofollow">Steve Hays on Cessationism</a></b><br /><br />If anyone is interested, my tentative views on prophecy can be read in the comments of these blogs: <br /><br /><a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-charismata.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>, <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/02/confessionalism-continuationism.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>, <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/04/divine-guidance.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>, <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/04/learning-to-hear-gods-voice.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>, <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/04/hearing-god.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>, <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/08/feminist-cessationists.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>, and <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/11/modern-apostles.html" rel="nofollow">HERE</a>ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-82513329827192172962013-11-16T17:56:36.982-05:002013-11-16T17:56:36.982-05:00Also, if NT prophecies of NT prophets (who were no...Also, if NT prophecies of NT prophets (who were not themselves apostles or Apostles) could ONLY be revelations on par with Scripture's authority, then there would not have been any injunction to test prophecies (1 Cor. 14:29-32; 1 Thess. 5:19-22). How dare anyone test any fully authoritative "thus saith the Lord" if it were on par with Moses' ability to give revelations? On the contrary, all were encouraged to ask God for the gift of prophecy and to be able to prophesy.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-37077771790252211162013-11-16T17:42:21.471-05:002013-11-16T17:42:21.471-05:00In this view, there is nothing unique about the re...<i>In this view, there is nothing unique about the record of Scripture. How God interacts with us is no different from how He interacted with Israel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Peter, or Paul. The result of Steve Hays’ argument is a massive downgrading of the revelation of Scripture.</i><br /><br />Even in the OT there were different levels of clarity and authority when it came to prophets. In the incident of Moses marrying a Cushite woman, Miriam and Aaron said, "Has the LORD indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?" (Num. 12:1). Aaron and Miriam were in essence claiming equal authority with Moses. But instead the LORD got angry with Aaron and Miriam and said,<br /><br />"Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, make Myself known to him in a vision; I speak to him in a dream. 7 Not so with My servant Moses; He is faithful in all My house. 8 I speak with him face to face, Even plainly, and not in dark sayings; And he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant Moses?"<br /><br />At the very least the LORD is saying that Moses' prophecies were clearer. I think it's not an unfair inference to say that the revelations Moses received from God and gave to the people were also of a higher authority than those given to and through other prophets. Even today, while the entire Tanakh is considered God's Word by Jews, the Torah has greater authority and preeminence over the rest of their canon [i.e. the Nevi'im ("Prophets") and Ketuvim ("Writings")].<br /><br />If there were gradations of authority among OT prophets, then why couldn't there be among NT prophets? It only makes sense. Otherwise there would have been no point in Scripture distinguishing between Apostles/apostles and prophets since prophets would have the same authority and prerogatives as A/apostles (cf. Eph. 4:11). From our perspective, the NT Apostles of Christ were on par with and were the counterparts of OT Prophets. Yet, when you read the writing of or about the NT Apostles of Christ in the NT, they didn't seem to regard themselves as their equals. Regardless of their self-perceptions, it doesn't really matter since they seemed to follow the principle of Prima Scriptura. That the already recognized Scriptures takes precedence over (and judges) any further alleged revelations. Including the teaching of the Apostles and apostles themselves. That's why Apostles and apostles could and were judged (Acts 17:11; Rev. 2:2; Gal. 1:8-9). If an Apostles or apostle deviated from Scripture or the received Gospel of the early church, they were to be rejected as false or apostate Apostles/apostles. So, regardless of the closing of the Canon of Scripture, Scripture took precedence. Therefore, if Scripture took precedence during OT times when revelation on par with Scripture was still being given (by their practice of Prima Scriptura), then there's no inconsistency in Scripture taking precedence after the closing of the canon even if there are revelations being given that are NOT on par with Scripture (i.e. in the present practice of Sola Scriptura).<br /><br />To summarize: <br />1. there were gradations of authoritative prophets in the OT (e.g. Num. 12:1-8; there were schools of the prophets in the OT where there were "prophets in training") <br /><br />2. there were gradations of authoritative prophets in the NT (e.g. there would be no need for a distinction between the office of Apostle/apostle and prophet in Eph. 4:11 if prophets had the same ability to give equally authoritative revelations as the Apostles of Christ. Especially since some were prophetesses [i.e. female prophets, cf. Acts 21:9; 1 Cor. 11:5])<br /><br />3. If Prima Scriptura could operate during OT and NT times when revelations were still being given which were fully authoritative to the highest degree, then Sola Scriptura can operate after the close of the canon even though revelations not authoritative to the fullest degree are still being given.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-53968037553242849172013-11-16T16:32:07.535-05:002013-11-16T16:32:07.535-05:00...…and Jesus appearing to Muslims.
There are als...<i>...…and Jesus appearing to Muslims.</i><br /><br />There are also claims of Jesus allegedly appearing to Christian missionaries too. For example, here's one video testimony of a persecuted missionary:<br /><br /><a href="http://youtu.be/ilSjpNuqn-4" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/ilSjpNuqn-4</a><br /><br />I don't automatically accepted it as true, but neither do I a priori reject it as false.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.com