tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post7289324175903827562..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Divine temptationRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-48538432599560577112012-12-14T13:54:16.123-05:002012-12-14T13:54:16.123-05:00Curious. Why?
Curious. Why?<br />Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-76352200086046923192012-12-14T13:49:01.531-05:002012-12-14T13:49:01.531-05:00Steve, from a mere chronological point of view I a...Steve, from a mere chronological point of view I am having a bit of difficulty with this sentence: <i>"...Although I think this passage (and others like it) is broadly supportive of Calvinism, it doesn’t require a Calvinistic grid to understand the passage the way I do. ..."</i><br /><br />I quite agree yet I would think broadly speaking those verses are supportive of God's view which in time was what the Calvinistic perspective came to be. By that I mean to say that Moses wrote those things well before John Calvin came along so unless Moses was given the ability to see down the corridors of time to the birth and development and systematic theology of John Calvin (Calvinism)to support his perspective there is no way Moses was supportive of Calvinism.<br /><br />That being said, I just want to touch on the work of being God hated Esau and love Jacob negating the Arminian belief that God loves and wants to save all humanity.<br /><br />Clearly there is a disconnect with these Scriptures for an Arminian to hold that belief:<br /><br /><b>"...Exo 17:14 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this as a memorial in a book and recite it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven." <br />Exo 17:15 And Moses built an altar and called the name of it, The LORD Is My Banner, <br />Exo 17:16 saying, "A hand upon the throne of the LORD! The LORD will have war with Amalek from generation to generation."</b><br /><br />Another of the difficult passages would be these:<br /><br /><b>"... Exo 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. <br />Exo 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, <br />Exo 20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. ..."</b>.<br /><br />Clearly there are some assumptions here. There isn't any dispute that the Arminian believes they are inherently sinful in nature in need of salvation? Clearly God is making it clear what is prior to that decreed through Moses there. There are some who "hate" God and there are some who do not hate God, rather love Him.<br /><br />Using that as a foundation for these verses from John 17, one should easily be able to conclude that the sort of "love" God is addressing is His Love not man's?<br /><br />Here are the Words of Jesus there in John 17 I refer too:<br /><br /><b>Joh 17:24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world. <br />Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. <br />Joh 17:26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them." </b>.<br /><br />For me when you consider what God spoke to Moses there (Exo 20:6) and what Jesus reveals here in John 17 "...you loved me before the foundation of the world ..." you have to question just what is the real reason for this hate/love relationship God is teaching.<br /><br />Seems to me the Calvinist has the understanding while the Arminian does not.michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01744678277860175675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-27437736428277525842012-12-14T13:43:13.443-05:002012-12-14T13:43:13.443-05:00That's a good example of a hasty generalizatio...That's a good example of a hasty generalization. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-16549216317951912212012-12-14T13:34:13.261-05:002012-12-14T13:34:13.261-05:00"Indeed, the very wording is probably modeled...<i>"Indeed, the very wording is probably modeled on Deut 13:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />These false messiahs and false prophets will offer “signs and wonders,” a phrase that echoes OT tradition, especially Deut 13:1(2), which expressly warns of the false prophet who hopes to gain acceptance through signs. C. Evans, Mark 8:27-16:20 (Nelson 2001), 323.<br /><br /><br />Here we have false prophets and messianic pretenders who, through miraculous portents and prodigies, will lead astray a portion of the covenant community."</i><br /><br />It would seem that the ones more likely to be lead astray would be those who are favorably inclined towards charismaticism or pentecostalism or continuationism. Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.com