tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post7253898026549957901..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: They enter into peaceRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-72194961300151991482011-03-17T21:46:17.235-04:002011-03-17T21:46:17.235-04:00Warning, eye opening observation ahead:
Steve:
&...Warning, eye opening observation ahead:<br /><br />Steve:<br /><br /><i>"Even at a human level, authors often have a deep personal investment in their book."</i><br /><br />And when the "Author" of particular books happens to be the Author of those He writes His books through, one can imagine, one would read things of this sort; and should if they could? Consider the deeply expressed belief in the emotions per se:<br /><br /><b><i>Exo 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, <br />Exo 20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. <br /><br />...<br /><br />1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, <br />1Pe 5:7 casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.</i></b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-87074156853068295972011-03-17T19:35:20.148-04:002011-03-17T19:35:20.148-04:00VLS SAID:
Steve wrote, “If God has a goal-oriented...VLS SAID:<br />Steve wrote, “If God has a goal-oriented plan for the world, then God takes a personal interest in achieving his aim.”<br /><br />"Isn’t the aim of God already achieved in the mind of God?"<br /><br />No, the aim of God is not to write a story in his head. The aim of a plan is not the plan itself.<br /><br />If the plan is about the history of a people, if the plan is about conscious men, women, angels, and demons, who act in real time, and (in the case of embodied minds) occupy real space, then the aim of the plan is only realized through the implementation of the plan. <br /><br />"Does the author of a book care about the characters of his book? Perhaps he cares when he writes the book, but after the book is written, what is there to care about?"<br /><br />Even at a human level, authors often have a deep personal investment in their book. Dante and Milton distilled their genius in their respective magnum opus.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-70441283069189647232011-03-17T09:10:57.061-04:002011-03-17T09:10:57.061-04:00Steve wrote, “If God has a goal-oriented plan for ...Steve wrote, “If God has a goal-oriented plan for the world, then God takes a personal interest in achieving his aim.”<br /><br />Isn’t the aim of God already achieved in the mind of God? <br /><br />Does the author of a book care about the characters of his book? Perhaps he cares when he writes the book, but after the book is written, what is there to care about?Distant Cousinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05765621905219905064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-30283264390295872011-03-17T08:39:40.253-04:002011-03-17T08:39:40.253-04:00My argument doesn't turn on the emotive connot...My argument doesn't turn on the emotive connotations of "caring," or anthropopatheticisms. Rather, it involves the more abstract principle that God values his own plan. If God has a goal-oriented plan for the world, then God takes a personal interest in achieving his aim. <br /><br />It's intellectual and teleological, not emotional. An agent wouldn't bother to arrange an end-means situation unless the outcome mattered to him.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-73602735917665538412011-03-17T08:34:09.802-04:002011-03-17T08:34:09.802-04:00Steve wrote, “He cares what happens because what h...Steve wrote, “He cares what happens because what happens is the result of what he planned to happen all along.”<br /><br />Why shouldn’t we understand Scriptural texts that refer to God’s caring to be anthropopathisms?Distant Cousinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05765621905219905064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-46266820975615030002011-03-17T08:20:12.342-04:002011-03-17T08:20:12.342-04:00"We shouldn’t look to God as our Heavenly Sob...<i>"We shouldn’t look to God as our Heavenly Sob Sister."</i><br /><br />That's a funny line.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-27995906028792026942011-03-16T21:34:46.454-04:002011-03-16T21:34:46.454-04:00Good point on Isa 57:1-2. That aspect is frequent...Good point on Isa 57:1-2. That aspect is frequently missed in discussions of evil.Saint and Sinnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14166699860672840738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-31044574264234380532011-03-16T19:01:53.857-04:002011-03-16T19:01:53.857-04:00JAMES SAID:
“Thus, it would seem somewhat presump...JAMES SAID:<br /><br />“Thus, it would seem somewhat presumptuous to assert with confidence that Japan's disaster is necessarily a form of divine punishment, and I don't think any of you have made that assertion.”<br /><br />Since Japan is a naturally earthquake-prone island nation, which–in turn–makes it quite vulnerable to tsunamis, I don’t think the current humanitarian crisis requires any special explanation. Ordinary providence will suffice. <br /><br />So, no, I doubt this reflects divine judgment. If it did, that would be so ambiguous as to be counterproductive.<br /><br />“However, does the fact that Japan is primarily comprised of people you'd consider reprobates (non-Christians, atheists, etc) be in itself a sign of God's wrath?”<br /><br />Reprobation is a sign of God’s wrath.<br /><br />“That is: does it seem that God has singled out Japan's residents throughout most of its history to be unbelievers and, therefore, destined for Hell?”<br /><br />i) We can only evaluate history at the end of history (more precisely, the stage of history between creation and consummation). There’s no telling where we are on the timeline. In the middle? The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?<br /><br />i) Unobtrusive institutions like Japan Bible Seminary can have disproportionate influence that only surfaces over time.<br /><br />ii) Given the prominence of Christianity in S. Korea, as well as the huge underground church in China, I can only assume the Christian presence in other parts of Asia will have a ripple effect on Japan.<br /><br />iii) Conversely, some countries are overcounted. Quebec went from being highly-churched to highly-unchurched in about a generation. In one sense that’s a rapid development, but in another sense there had to be a lot of dry rot just under the surface for that to happen so fast. Comparative statistics are slippery.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-17499897701988528212011-03-16T17:10:49.091-04:002011-03-16T17:10:49.091-04:00They say that less than 1% of the population of Ja...They say that less than 1% of the population of Japan is Christian. <br /><br />If natural disasters never occurred in the Bible Belt, it would seem reasonable to conclude that all natural disasters are indicative of divine disfavor. Generally, though, it does seem that even they are not immune from a tornado or hurricane from time to time. Thus, it would seem somewhat presumptuous to assert with confidence that Japan's disaster is necessarily a form of divine punishment, and I don't think any of you have made that assertion.<br /><br />However, does the fact that Japan is primarily comprised of people you'd consider reprobates (non-Christians, atheists, etc) be in itself a sign of God's wrath? <br /><br />That is: does it seem that God has singled out Japan's residents throughout most of its history to be unbelievers and, therefore, destined for Hell?Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01694207997231305470noreply@blogger.com