tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post7210316120792134302..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Cecil the lionRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-30191941570043163772015-07-30T02:13:22.046-04:002015-07-30T02:13:22.046-04:00Given naturalism there's no cogent argument ag...Given naturalism there's no cogent argument against Palmer killing his entire hunting party, eating their livers, and wearing their skins as an overcoat.<br /><br />Survival of the fittest; nature red in tooth and claw; carpe diem baby.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231394164372721485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-78031994226417322382015-07-29T23:07:18.580-04:002015-07-29T23:07:18.580-04:00Yes, they're conflicted. If man is an animal, ...Yes, they're conflicted. If man is an animal, then he's the apex predator. So he's just doing what comes naturally. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-70591863681202906412015-07-29T23:06:04.693-04:002015-07-29T23:06:04.693-04:00"Secondly, while there are always excess male..."Secondly, while there are always excess males due to pride structure, hunters always want the best specimens. As such, weaker male lions get to mate who otherwise wouldn't (as the best ones and their offspring are killed), overall diluting the gene pool."<br /><br />Interesting objection:<br /><br />i) It's true that human hunters like to bag the most impressive specimens. <br /><br />ii) However, even though, if give a choice, some predators opt for easy prey, it depends on what's available. It's not just the sickly or aged prey that are picked off. Many predators kill prey in their prime. Barracuda, birds of prey, crocodiles, orcas, sharks, moray eels, tigers, tigerish, polar bears, piranhas, wolves, pythons, &c., aren't that finicky. Lions will even take on cape buffalo, although that's a very dangerous prey species which can easily kill the lion. <br /><br />If killing a robust specimen or specimen in its prime dilutes the gene pool, nature does that all the time. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-15684818597148336822015-07-29T22:00:34.458-04:002015-07-29T22:00:34.458-04:00Steady hands and a good aim are important skills f...Steady hands and a good aim are important skills for dentistry.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231394164372721485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-65324710110896269952015-07-29T21:55:23.511-04:002015-07-29T21:55:23.511-04:00Btw, the hunter is a dentist. Apparently Yelp revi...Btw, the hunter is a dentist. Apparently Yelp reviews are savaging his dental practice even though most of the reviewers have never visited his practice. As if his hunting had any bearing on his dentistry. Patrick Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095377877712197984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-33504242739720971522015-07-29T21:49:01.861-04:002015-07-29T21:49:01.861-04:00I wonder how many of these PC police types have sp...I wonder how many of these PC police types have spent time in the outdoors or wild (e.g. camping, hiking)? This sort of exposure (among other things) might give them a better perspective and appreciation of what they criticize, for a lot of their criticisms seem to reflect a substantial ignorance of nature.Patrick Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095377877712197984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-10180918421806536832015-07-29T21:10:14.506-04:002015-07-29T21:10:14.506-04:00"Feline lives matter!""Feline lives matter!"Semper Reformandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14654695501552603164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-64626551335383755192015-07-29T20:43:11.020-04:002015-07-29T20:43:11.020-04:00Cecil was aborted. C'est la vie. Palmer just...Cecil was aborted. C'est la vie. Palmer just went about things all wrong.<br /><br />Palmer and his hunt team should have pinned Cecil down, fully conscious, and held his big furry head in a giant pair of forceps while the base of his skull was punctured with a pair of garden shears, and his brains were sucked out with a shop vac. Then they should have dismembered him and sold, er, "donated" his tissues to interested third parties.<br /><br />Heck, I'd pay $50,000 to see that videotaped and put on YouTube. Then I'd dare the PC police to wax apoplectic.CRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231394164372721485noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-12013192921779425362015-07-29T19:16:14.612-04:002015-07-29T19:16:14.612-04:00I've been challenging Darwinists for criticizi...I've been challenging Darwinists for criticizing another animal, higher up the food chain, who was exercising pride of place in the evolutionary chain. They don't get it.Rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10636175772113235987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-57660209237819439002015-07-29T18:29:36.393-04:002015-07-29T18:29:36.393-04:00"How is killing Cecil any different from what..."How is killing Cecil any different from what routinely happens in the wild?"<br /><br />I'd agree but it's not a completely analogous situation here, given the fact that the African lion is close to being classified as endangered mainly due to human activities in sub-Saharan Africa (through population increases in the area). Of course, sport hunting is beneficial to conservation of endangered species but what was done here is poaching.<br /><br />Palmer claims that he was under the impression that everything was done legally, but he's had a poaching incident in the US in 2008. So the situation is a bit murky. And as much as I dislike trophy hunting, the reaction from the PC crowd has probably been some of the worst I've seen in a good while. You've got despicable charlatans like Piers Morgan writing a piece about hunting Palmer in the same manner.<br /><br />All this now takes centre stage while there is not even a whisper in the media about the third Planned Parenthood's video.SGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12373421930200353769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-62511394383602060392015-07-29T18:07:53.560-04:002015-07-29T18:07:53.560-04:00I wouldn't be surprised if this got more cover...I wouldn't be surprised if this got more coverage in the mainstream media than Planned Parenthood's selling of baby parts. One lion vs. over 189,000 abortions by Planned Parenthood this year alone.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-77741620821564573522015-07-29T16:45:28.420-04:002015-07-29T16:45:28.420-04:00"There's a difference between hunting and..."There's a difference between hunting and poaching. His critics make that distinction."<br /><br />There are animal rights groups that oppose hunting, period. <br /><br />"Cecil was in his prime."<br /><br />Which misses the point. Had he not died in his prime, how would he have died? It isn't pretty.<br /><br />"Cecil was lured outside the park at night and shot by a bow and arrow which did not kill him - it was another 40 hours before the hunting party returned to kill him with gunshot."<br /><br />For animals rights groups, it doesn't matter if he died slowly (by a botched shooting) or instantaneously. They oppose hunting in principle. <br /><br />As for the safety of the cubs, yes, when rivals take over a preexisting pride, they kill the cubs of the ousted male and start from scratch. That's the law of the jungle. <br /><br />How is killing Cecil any different from what routinely happens in the wild? stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-83655815918216285122015-07-29T16:24:06.265-04:002015-07-29T16:24:06.265-04:00"The hunter has issued a futile apology. &quo..."The hunter has issued a futile apology. "<br /><br />Part of the skepticism of his apology stems from his past illegal hunting infractions - this wasn't his first "mistake".<br /><br />"Now, I'm not into big game hunting, but how do these critics think lions die in the wild? Do they think lions naturally die a peaceful death? I bet you most of them don't stop to think about it at all."<br /><br />There's a difference between hunting and poaching. His critics make that distinction - which is why many hunters are also criticizing him and his guides. That's why permits are issued for these types of hunt - they are issued to kill old males who are either a problem for the pride or are beyond mating age. This then increases the strength and stability of the pride. That's part of the point of responsible conservation trophy hunting. It's not like this was a case of antelope hunting where there are millions still left in Africa - the African lion is on the cusp of being classified as threatened.<br /><br />"Once a lion passes his prime, he is doomed. He will be ousted by a younger rival. "<br /><br />Cecil was in his prime.<br /><br />"Dr Andrew Loveridge, one of the principal researchers on the project, told the publication that Cecil and another male lion named Jericho led two prides with six lionesses and a dozen young cubs, and he feared for the safety of the cubs now Cecil had been killed.<br />"Jericho as a single male will be unable to defend the two prides and cubs from new males that invade the territory. This is what we most often see happening in these cases. Infanticide is the most likely outcome," he said."<br /><br />Secondly, while there are always excess males due to pride structure, hunters always want the best specimens. As such, weaker male lions get to mate who otherwise wouldn't (as the best ones and their offspring are killed), overall diluting the gene pool.<br /><br />"But death by a bullet is a lot quicker than death by "natural causes" on the savannah. Logically, they should classify big game hunting as mercy killing. "<br /><br />Cecil was lured outside the park at night and shot by a bow and arrow which did not kill him - it was another 40 hours before the hunting party returned to kill him with gunshot.Cletus Van Dammehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13749634619890462132noreply@blogger.com