tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post6887406035055436026..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: An overview of the Jesus questRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-58934197502698008352011-05-15T17:17:08.858-04:002011-05-15T17:17:08.858-04:00Thanks Patrick for providing this overview of the ...Thanks Patrick for providing this overview of the Jesus quest. It's been confusing at times and this overview is helpful.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-3253059124473246952011-05-15T09:27:59.518-04:002011-05-15T09:27:59.518-04:00Great info, Wenatchee! Much appreciated. Thanks.
...Great info, Wenatchee! Much appreciated. Thanks.<br /><br />As far as this bit:<br /><br /><b>How much of Wright's work have you read? I've never seen him quote any rabbinical writings that post-date the earliest Christian writings and I own fourteen of his books.</b><br /><br />1. Just to reiterate for people: this is my summary of Blomberg's summary. <br /><br />As such, it could be that I misunderstood Blomberg's summary of Wright's work. Or if I got Blomberg's summary more or less right, it could be that I misunderstood Wright himself.<br /><br />2. Unfortunately I've never read any of Wright's books. I've read a few of his articles. That's more or less the extent and depth of my familiarity with Wright. Quite superficial. Obviously it's nowhere near enough to form any sort of a fair opinion on Wright's work. At the same time I don't pretend to do so.<br /><br />3. In any case, given all this, my point about Wright giving too much credence to rabbinic interpretation of certain biblical passages may or may not apply. Again I'm just basing the point on my understanding of Blomberg's summary of Wright. But as I mentioned in the post I could well be wrong.<br /><br />4. Since you're easily and certainly far better read than I am with regard to Wright's work, I'll happily accept your conclusions about him.<br /><br />That said I'd just point out that perhaps while Wright never <i>quotes</i> rabbinical writings, it seems still possible that he gives too much credence to rabbinic interpretations of Scripture. Like I think it's possible, for example, that while John Smith never directly quotes Jane Doe in any of his writings, yet he has perhaps absorbed a significant aspect of her perspective on this or that topic, and made it part of his own patterns of thinking such that her ideas and thoughts and so forth come through in his writings as well, even unbeknownst to him (consciously).<br /><br />Of course, like I think you're implying, maybe this is quite doubtful.<br /><br />5. On a tangentially related note, Michael Bird is absolutely hilarious <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtZqLRNY6yA" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Among other things, he talks about the heretic Nicholas Wright in contrast to his orthodox brother Tom Wright. Bird offers more serious comments about the books which have most influenced him <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTg_eA_390w" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Patrick Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095377877712197984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-3683914584045474942011-05-15T00:07:29.215-04:002011-05-15T00:07:29.215-04:00How much of Wright's work have you read? I...How much of Wright's work have you read? I've never seen him quote any rabbinical writings that post-date the earliest Christian writings and I own fourteen of his books. Wright's proposal that 1st century Jews still saw themselves as in exile is controversial but in its favor we can consider a few things.<br /><br />1) when the temple is rebuilt in Ezra/Nehemiah there is no mention of the presence of the Lord descending on the Temple and filling the Holy Place as in Kings, for instance. <br /><br />2) John's baptism "could" be seen as an alternative form of penance/propitiation to the temple customs of the day. Since there were Jewish groups that saw the temple as an extenstion of Herodian power and attempts at legitimacy some Jews decided to withdraw from the Temple cult and come up with alternative ways of being observant Jews. Wright proposes these from his reading of intertestamental literature. The various points you consider to not be Orthodox Christianity look pretty conventionally Orthodox to me, unless you're referring to Eastern Orthodoxy.<br /><br />Wright has worked with a double similarity approach in response to the double dissimilarity used by earlier quests. Whereas earlier quest evaluations held that Jesus could not have said something that sounded like early Christianity or Judaism, Wright works on the supposition that Jesus' teaching in the Gospels should be considered both as an outgrowth of Jewish thought (since Jesus was Jewish) but also as having a foundational role in shaping early Christian belief. Since many scholars worked on the assumption that early Christianity was so utterly Hellenized Jewish thought was not particularly important the third quest at least improves upon the earlier quests in attempting to account for the Jewish milleu in which early Christianity developed. The late William Lane used to say that this was at least one thing the third quest had going for it over against the previous two. In this respect the Jesus Seminar has nothing to do with the Third Quest and is more plausibly presented as the dead end of the Second Quest.Wenatchee the Hatchethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13208892745502555715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-44659055283607138922011-05-14T16:48:07.989-04:002011-05-14T16:48:07.989-04:00Yes, but it is like Jesus saying to Pilate, you ar...Yes, but it is like Jesus saying to Pilate, you are saying I am the king of the Jews. I ask because the area around Galilee was Decapolis, which were the cities modeled on the Greek polis. If you are interested, there is a video series where I got the idea from.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KdmVe-uMkEVytautashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10563655929016752682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-469511227543388652011-05-14T13:53:30.653-04:002011-05-14T13:53:30.653-04:00FWIW, if anything, here is an old paper by C.S. Le...FWIW, if anything, <a href="http://orthodox-web.tripod.com/papers/fern_seed.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> is an old paper by C.S. Lewis titled "Fern-Seed and Elephants."Patrick Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095377877712197984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-11399606949639200942011-05-14T13:41:28.723-04:002011-05-14T13:41:28.723-04:00That's an interesting question, Vytautas. Unfo...That's an interesting question, Vytautas. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer. Maybe someone else does?<br /><br />Of course, Jesus was primarily a first century Jew living in Israel. Although he did live and minister in Galilee which I think had a lot of Gentiles at the time. Still my personal sense is I doubt even the most liberal scholars these days would try to place Jesus within a Greek tradition. But again I don't really know since I'm just a layman without any formal training in this area.<br /><br />BTW, sorry it's not clear, but I didn't say it. Rather I'm just summarizing what Blomberg said. In fact, most of this post is summary.Patrick Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095377877712197984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-59830671840195440522011-05-14T13:16:04.260-04:002011-05-14T13:16:04.260-04:00You say that Jesus as a wise sage is shown by his ...You say that Jesus as a wise sage is shown by his parables, proverbs, sayings, and so forth in the context of Jewish wisdom literature. God himself is personified as wisdom rather than abstract wisdom, so that there is Jewish precedence for how Jesus could use the language of divinity. But are there proponents of Jesus as a wise sage in the Greek tradition such as the Stoics and Cynics?Vytautashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10563655929016752682noreply@blogger.com