tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post671098749639936515..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: "Pelagian Calvinism"Ryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-37434977728058171982009-03-02T10:13:00.000-05:002009-03-02T10:13:00.000-05:00Beowulf sounds like one of those antinomian, Sande...Beowulf sounds like one of those antinomian, Sandemandian types in the "Free Grace" movement, a la Hodges, Ryrie, &c. It's a recipe for nominal Christianity.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-83265507587808034932009-03-02T10:11:00.000-05:002009-03-02T10:11:00.000-05:00LIGHTWEIGHT SAID:“What is the ‘same principle’ as ...LIGHTWEIGHT SAID:<BR/><BR/>“What is the ‘same principle’ as heavenly rewards that you are referring to? Thanks.”<BR/><BR/>God doesn’t dole out heavenly rewards because Christians merit a reward. Rather:<BR/><BR/>i) Heavenly rewards function as an incentive to persevere.<BR/><BR/>ii) It’s also a way in which God distinguishes between less faithful and more faithful Christians–giving public recognition to the latter.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-5045231014811765352009-03-01T11:00:00.000-05:002009-03-01T11:00:00.000-05:00Dear Steve,I'm sorry you got entangled with Nick N...Dear Steve,<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry you got entangled with Nick Norelli. He adamantly insists that the Bible is errant.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-9791519069681843322009-03-01T00:04:00.000-05:002009-03-01T00:04:00.000-05:00And, Sorry, but grace does not mean inner renewal....And, Sorry, but grace does not mean inner renewal.<BR/><BR/>As usual, you trade in fallacious argumentation.<BR/><BR/>1. You provide no exegetical support for this statement.<BR/><BR/>2. You don't distinguish between the meanings of words and concepts.Steve did not say that the meaning of the word "grace" = "inner renewal." Did you fail Reading in grade school? What he stated is that grace has a subjective dimension - that subjective dimension is inner renewal. Even Arminians themselves recognize that regeneration is the subjective dimension of grace. <BR/><BR/>3. As Steve pointed out, you conflict dogmatic usage and biblical usage.<BR/><BR/><I>Our</I> position is a false position? Okay, let's see you mount an exegetical argument for libertarian freedom. Come to think of it, let's see you mount an exegetical argument for anything whatsoever...GeneMBridgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10504383610477532374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-32591756145522293502009-02-28T22:58:00.000-05:002009-02-28T22:58:00.000-05:00"That's a Pelagian definition which most theologia..."That's a Pelagian definition which most theologian traditions reject." Pelagian isn't a bad word to me. And, Sorry, but grace does not mean inner renewal. "Most recognize the subjective dimension of grace." Whatever. Your position is just false doctrine couched in big words.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-28680577939117707842009-02-28T16:40:00.000-05:002009-02-28T16:40:00.000-05:00Steve, You wrote, "[W]hen Reformed theology says t...Steve, You wrote, "[W]hen Reformed theology says that Adam was in a covenant of works, this doesn’t entail the proposition that Adam merited the reward. Rather, it could operate on the same principle as heavenly rewards."<BR/><BR/>What is the "same principle" as heavenly rewards that you are referring to? Thanks.bellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15263644056413736693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-69929573078677324632009-02-28T08:38:00.000-05:002009-02-28T08:38:00.000-05:00BEOWULF2K8 SAID:"Grace to everyone else is essenti...BEOWULF2K8 SAID:<BR/><BR/>"Grace to everyone else is essentially mercy."<BR/><BR/>That's a Pelagian definition which most theologian traditions reject. Most recognize the subjective dimension of grace. The necessity of inner renewal. <BR/><BR/>"Look at it this way, Lightweight: Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the Lord according to Gen 6:8. Now, does that mean that God gave Noah a magical power to keep the commandments he was unable to keep before, or does it mean that God gave him a divine plan whereby he could escape from death?"<BR/><BR/>That's inept on several grounds:<BR/><BR/>i) You're confusing English words with Hebrew words.<BR/><BR/>ii) You're confusing words with concepts.<BR/><BR/>iii) You're confusing Biblical usage with dogmatic usage.<BR/><BR/>iv) You're disregarding the variety of Biblical usage.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-74282819999540251032009-02-28T08:32:00.000-05:002009-02-28T08:32:00.000-05:00Beowulf,The Orthodox would condemn you as a hereti...Beowulf,<BR/><BR/>The Orthodox would condemn you as a heretic. <BR/><BR/>An Anabaptist? You tipped your hand when you recently defended Pelagius.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-77188312006062728252009-02-27T22:31:00.000-05:002009-02-27T22:31:00.000-05:00"What exactly is grace?"Grace to an Augustinian is...<I>"What exactly is grace?"</I><BR/><BR/>Grace to an Augustinian is some sort of power God gives you that enables you to obey him. Grace to everyone else is essentially mercy. God sending Jesus to die for our sins and having the gospel preached in this world (as opposed to just instantly killing us all and sending us to hell) is grace--right? Of course. But to the Augustinian, grace is a magical power to give you magical abilities to do stuff.<BR/><BR/>Look at it this way, Lightweight: Noah found GRACE in the eyes of the Lord according to Gen 6:8. Now, does that mean that God gave Noah a magical power to keep the commandments he was unable to keep before, or does it mean that God gave him a divine plan whereby he could escape from death? Obviously the latter. So how come grace today is defined as magical power to make us able to keep commandments we couldn't keep before, rather than as the plan that God provided to enable us to escape hell? Obvious answer: false doctrine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-21574692350938843852009-02-27T22:26:00.000-05:002009-02-27T22:26:00.000-05:00As far as the basic foundation of soteriology they...As far as the basic foundation of soteriology they are orthodox: Adam's sin condemned our bodies to death. Our sins and not his condemn our souls. Jesus saved all men from bodily death by establishing the resurrection. Jesus saves only those who believe and obey the gospel from spiritual death. <BR/><BR/>Because I am an anabaptist I obviously disagree with them on how one obeys the gospel. But they are still orthodox on the most basic basics, unlike you. But mostly I was just being cute with the play on words between Orthodox and orthodox.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-67554420979741282592009-02-27T10:23:00.000-05:002009-02-27T10:23:00.000-05:00Steve,You asked the question, “What is grace?” Yo...Steve,<BR/><BR/>You asked the question, “What is grace?” You then went on to describe the different technical and nontechnical ways that term grace is used in Reformed Theology, but, as far as I could tell, never went on to explain exactly what grace is. I have a couple of questions: What exactly is grace? and, What is the opposite of grace? Thanks.bellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15263644056413736693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-32937157852046174912009-02-27T08:23:00.000-05:002009-02-27T08:23:00.000-05:00If that's your equation, then, by your own standar...If that's your equation, then, by your own standard, you're a heretic. You call yourself an Anabaptist. So Eastern Orthodoxy is not your criterion of sound theology. Or have you suddenly converted to EO since the last time we spoke?stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-69386993128496082752009-02-26T21:49:00.000-05:002009-02-26T21:49:00.000-05:00"Of course, that begs the question of why Orthodox...<I>"Of course, that begs the question of why Orthodox theology should supply the standard of comparison."</I><BR/><BR/>Simple: Orthodox theology is orthodox.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com