tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post5525761043680975935..comments2024-03-14T14:41:17.663-04:00Comments on Triablogue: God as author analogyRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-22430744372884245662012-12-31T16:40:45.168-05:002012-12-31T16:40:45.168-05:00A few calvinists actually got through to ask about...A few calvinists actually got through to ask about the death of Christ (Isaiah 53:10<br />Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer...) and Olson just responded with snark about "Good Friday."<br /><br />Now that he openly rejects the authority of scripture, I think it's safe to consider Olson more as a parody of an Arminian than a serious commenter.chaleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11362350064376943436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-11614786888129354122012-12-29T15:15:13.917-05:002012-12-29T15:15:13.917-05:00Thanks, Jim. While it's always hard to hear wh...Thanks, Jim. While it's always hard to hear what the Fall implies and it breaks my heart to know what the end result is for some, I take great comfort in what you just said the main focus is. John 6:68 serves as that powerful reminder every time.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01188876219389875421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-79664830462238307852012-12-29T11:24:04.028-05:002012-12-29T11:24:04.028-05:00"I don't really understand the analogy yo...<i>"I don't really understand the analogy you made with the carpenter and his materials. It seems that the crucial distinction is that wood is not a conscious being that can experience sorrow or pain for eternity, while people obviously can."</i><br /><br />Every analogy breaks down at some point. How does our sentience mitigate God's culpability? It would mitigate ours, but not God's. <br /><br /><i>"Do you know of any way to explain this in an analogy that takes that particular distinction into account?"</i><br /><br />I suppose I could replace the boards with advanced AI units. Sentiments over Roddenberry's Commander Data or Asimov's Bicentennial Man aside, intrinsic value is not imparted by sentience, but by God. We are bound to respect our fellow image bearers, but God, who created the image and is the source of the image, is not. We should have every right to use for our purposes a non-image-bearing sentience of our own device without sinning as such.<br /><br /><i>"Additionally, is there any convincing way of explaining why new conscious beings (i.e. newborn people) deserve the curse of a sinful nature inherited from Adam?</i><br /><br />Read Romans 5. The convincing is up to the Holy Spirit. You either believe what he wrote or you don't. Some people nit-pick the language to push a point that is contrary to Paul's overall argument, but the fact is that our sin nature comes from Adam's sin and is imparted to everyone - including infants (Ps 51:5).<br /><br />Now what I didn't say is that he condemns infants. God is as gracious as he is just and might save them anyway. The fact is that we simply don't know because God hasn't revealed it to us. Trust God anyway for no one else can save (we can't even save ourselves by some lack of bad behavior for if we have any behavior at all it's tainted by our sin nature). That's the focus.Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-71921896079136115792012-12-29T00:35:25.584-05:002012-12-29T00:35:25.584-05:00Whoops. Sorry about the lack of spacing between pa...Whoops. Sorry about the lack of spacing between paragraphs. I forgot how the formatting ends up.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01188876219389875421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-59145478166535259462012-12-29T00:20:12.249-05:002012-12-29T00:20:12.249-05:00Jim,
I don't really understand the analog...Jim,<br /> I don't really understand the analogy you made with the carpenter and his materials. It seems that the crucial distinction is that wood is not a conscious being that can experience sorrow or pain for eternity, while people obviously can.<br /> Do you know of any way to explain this in an analogy that takes that particular distinction into account? Additionally, is there any convincing way of explaining why new conscious beings (i.e. newborn people) deserve the curse of a sinful nature inherited from Adam? <br /> Thanks for any insights you may offer.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01188876219389875421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-79987038554760710682012-12-27T20:07:23.828-05:002012-12-27T20:07:23.828-05:00"But what I am asking is why Calvinists such ..."But what I am asking is why Calvinists such as the author of the essay in question do NOT celebrate dead soldiers and children. That would seem to be a logical response to their deaths IF those deaths are willed, planned and rendered certain by God for the greater good."<br /><br />But what I am asking is why Olson does NOT celebrate chemotherapy and dental extraction and surgical amputations. That would seem to be a logical response IF those things are willed, planned and rendered certain by physicians for the greater good of a patient.Peter Pikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11792036365040378473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-20040494221709106882012-12-27T17:11:02.937-05:002012-12-27T17:11:02.937-05:00“That would seem to be a logical response to their...<i>“That would seem to be a logical response to their deaths IF those deaths are willed, planned and rendered certain by God for the greater good.”</i><br /><br />Additionally, this seems to presuppose that what is wrong for us is also wrong for God. God has every right to punish or kill his own creation, especially we who are born in rebellion against him.<br /><br />What is wrong is for us to punish or kill his creation without just cause. Are we not already guilty? Would it make us more guilty in our sin to carry out what God has ordained when it means that we sin in the process? That’s no justification on our part. We are already culpable and only demonstrate it.<br /><br />But God does not sin by using his sinful creation to carry out his purposes. Indeed, creation was cursed from the fall and remains so today. The hardness of the ground (Gen 3:17ff) is indicative of the hardness of our hearts, especially as we bang them against each other.<br /><br />But Go does not sin by ordaining these things any more than we sin by using one board as a sacrifice material to cut another board in the saw to be made into a beautiful piece of handiwork. Both boards are fit for the fire until the carpenter works the wood. One board will still go to the fire. The board that remains has no place to curse the board that was sacrificed, and the carpenter warms the shop with the one for a day and adorns his home with the other for a generation.<br /><br />God did not sin by causing Jospeh’s brothers to sell him into slavery. Joseph’s brother’s, however, sinned by selling him into slavery.<br />Jim Pembertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01446388434272680014noreply@blogger.com