tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post4653808805777625987..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Pope Bergoglio Pulls On Thread; “Seamless Garment” Falls ApartRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-72561322017452068012016-12-05T22:58:13.110-05:002016-12-05T22:58:13.110-05:00Kirk, I don't recall specifically where, but a...Kirk, I don't recall specifically where, but at several points he talked about "finishing the work of Vatican II". He became a priest in 1969, after Vatican II, and he may have been moved by "the Spirit of Vatican II", which, to paraphrase the words of Pope John XXIII, involved "opening the windows and letting some fresh air in". Back at that time, it wasn't thought of as a conservative/liberal split. The "progressives" of Vatican II certainly didn't think of themselves in terms of "liberal Protestants". The split prior to Vatican II was more along the lines of neo-Thomist vs "nouvelle theologie", Trent vs "ressourcement" (most of the "nouvelle theologians" were French -- Yves Congar, Henri De Lubac, etc.) If you read Kung's interviews, he talks like that, of wanting to "finish the work of Vatican II". That kind of thinking certainly still exists among some of the highest levels in the RCC. <br /><br />I'm not sure what his agenda is with this marriage stuff. I've linked several times to an article "Pope Francis is Cleaning House":<br /><br />http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2013/10/pope-francis-is-cleaning-house.html <br /><br />He said: "I have the humility and ambition to want to do something. … providence has placed me at the head of the Church and the Diocese of Peter. I will do what I can to fulfill the mandate that has been entrusted to me." That was one of the Spadera articles -- not a direct quote but a Spadera paraphrase. But I think it is accurate. I think he genuinely believes he was placed by God into the papacy for a reason. He feels some kind of mission.<br /><br />As for marriage specifically, I'm sure it was a studied issue, with him looking for a place "where I CAN make a dent". Roman Catholic teaching on marriage is something that is really strange, and the divorced-and-civilly-remarried issue is likely a huge one, one of the biggest on the radar screen, precisely because it's one of the biggest sources of people leaving the RCC. It stems from those years in the 1960's when the birth control pill and "no-fault divorce" both became prevalent -- i.e., because it occurred during his lifetime, and he could see the effects of it. I don't know, that is just a speculation. <br /><br />I think he has intended to push things as far as he possibly could, and he has done it with this document. I don't think he would ever make an "ex cathedra" doctrine out of this. (It' too far into the realm of morality to be considered a doctrinal statement. And yet in a practical way, it undermines the doctrine of the sacraments and finally of "the Church".) <br /><br />With him turning 80 this year, it seems to me that he's too old now to push things any further, or to have too much of an agenda. (Although I wish him a long and meddling life). <br /><br />Finally, here is a brief biography. I'm not sure how his past life in Argentina led to any of this:<br /><br />http://www.biography.com/people/pope-francis-21152349John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-63907929098086385792016-12-05T22:05:40.528-05:002016-12-05T22:05:40.528-05:00John, please opine upon what you think Bergie has ...John, please opine upon what you think Bergie has to gain by his actions: pulling down the papacy means pulling down the RCC's reason for existence, and his own authority; the Lib agenda has all but annihilated those churches which fell for it; he risks losing both the Libs and the conservatives and has no clear guarrantee that throwing a few sops to divorcees will stanch Rome's own membership hemorrhage.<br /><br />The man is no idiot, but he seems either a Trojan horse or a fool. Your thoughts, please.Kirk Skeptichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06142889734004402296noreply@blogger.com