tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post4002348811126998126..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: From temple and Transfiguration to PentecostRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-30370067077990286782019-10-14T09:24:56.858-04:002019-10-14T09:24:56.858-04:00You're assuming that the visions and oracles i...You're assuming that the visions and oracles in Ezk 35-48 are arranged in chronological order. Possibly. But like other prophetic books, it's an anthology of visions and oracles experienced or delivered at different times. It's not like these books were dictated in sequence. Rather, a scribe like Baruch collected the posthumous visions and oracles and edited them into a single volume.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-68459111386135521612019-10-13T22:44:00.070-04:002019-10-13T22:44:00.070-04:00There's nothing in Mt 24:15 to indicate that i...There's nothing in Mt 24:15 to indicate that it refers to a third temple. At the time of Christ's prediction, the Second Temple was still standing. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-12726608289842720262019-10-13T22:41:59.671-04:002019-10-13T22:41:59.671-04:00There's nothing in the text of Ezekiel to indi...There's nothing in the text of Ezekiel to indicate that it refers to the Islamic world and a third temple. The Second Temple hadn't even been built yet at the time of writing. <br /><br />There's nothing in the text of 1 Thes 2:2-4 to indicate that it refers to third temple. At the time of writing, the Second Temple was still standing. <br /><br />http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2015/01/prelude-to-parousia.htmlstevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-77112756326676032852019-10-13T18:32:54.932-04:002019-10-13T18:32:54.932-04:00"Also, Hebrews seems to say that the land pro..."Also, Hebrews seems to say that the land promises to Israel are also already fulfilled in Christ and that the land of Canaan / promised land is a type of heaven"<br /><br />No Ken. You are confusing the two covenants. One that deals with sacrifices. The other that deals with land.<br /><br />There are multiple times in the Old Testament that say that the land covenant between God and Israel cannot be broken. <br /><br />The last conversation between Jesus and the disciples in Acts 1, involves the disciples asking Jesus when is he going to restore the kingdom to Israel? Importantly Jesus does not deny it. Just that it does not concern the disciples.<br /><br />Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01320569420417469805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-83348265869674586822019-10-13T16:37:51.772-04:002019-10-13T16:37:51.772-04:00Chronologically it does not fit.
Ezekiel 35-36 Go...Chronologically it does not fit.<br /><br />Ezekiel 35-36 God pronounces on Arab world<br /><br />Ezekiel 37 God restores Israel<br /><br />Ezekiel 38-39 God executes Judgment on Islamic world<br /><br />Ezekiel 40-48 building of third temple.<br /><br />2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 refers to its desecration.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01320569420417469805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-87848608162427846152019-10-13T16:28:25.533-04:002019-10-13T16:28:25.533-04:00Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 refer to a...Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 refer to a third temple.<br /><br />You seem to have ignored Romans 9,10 & 11 where Paul talks about the future destiny of Israel.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01320569420417469805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-85537622495796953392019-10-13T16:12:47.290-04:002019-10-13T16:12:47.290-04:00Even a cursory reading of Ezekiel 38 & 39 and ...Even a cursory reading of Ezekiel 38 & 39 and Revelation 20:8 makes it obvious that these are two different events.<br /><br />Ezekiel 38 & 39 gives great detail about where it happens and who is involved. And how the invaders of Israel will perish.<br /><br />Revelation 20:8 is a supernatural event.<br /><br />Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01320569420417469805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-79720832660045768492019-10-11T18:04:21.107-04:002019-10-11T18:04:21.107-04:00It's not a command to build a new temple. It&#...It's not a command to build a new temple. It's not a verbal assertion about the future. It's not a propositional claim about things to come. In that sense, it's not a prophecy. <br /><br />Now, I do think it has a futuristic thrust (future to Ezekiel), but as it stands, Ezk 40-48 are simply a verbalized description of something the prophet was shown in vision. By itself, it has no timeframe–past, present, or future. At best, that's something a reader must provide from outside the vision. stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-22404456538665429402019-10-11T18:00:17.534-04:002019-10-11T18:00:17.534-04:00Good points!Good points!stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-79594829116805810012019-10-11T17:59:51.857-04:002019-10-11T17:59:51.857-04:00Good points!Good points!stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-26621422389880369482019-10-11T14:11:07.252-04:002019-10-11T14:11:07.252-04:00For secular readers, Ezk 40-48 is a classic exampl...<i>For secular readers, Ezk 40-48 is a classic example of a failed hope. This was Ezekiel's utopian ancipation for what awaited the post-exilic community. But it never happened.</i><br /><br />Seems like Herod's 40 year expansion project of the temple, with the approval of the Pharisees and leaders of Israel (scribes, Sadducees, priests, etc.) was an attempt to restore the "glory" of Solomon's temple to the 2nd temple, but the coming of Jesus, the NT teaching, and everything subsequent (the coming of the Holy Spirit and details you brought out in Acts 2, etc.; and the destruction of the temple in 70 AD) rebuked all of that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-19060936426386991152019-10-11T14:06:24.102-04:002019-10-11T14:06:24.102-04:00. . . the wolf and the lion laying down together, ...<i> . . . the wolf and the lion laying down together, etc. </i><br /><br />Sorry, I meant "the wolf and the lamb lying down together, etc. - Isaiah 11:6-16 and Isaiah 65:25 and related texts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-11342284928610066262019-10-11T13:24:32.367-04:002019-10-11T13:24:32.367-04:00Also, there is no NT principle that tells us to pu...Also, there is no NT principle that tells us to put all those details of Ezekiel 40-48 into the text of Revelation 20:1-6.<br /><br />Also, the final battle of "Gog and Magog" are after the Millennium (Rev. 20:7-10), not before, which the Pre-Tribers / Pre-Millennialists have made too many speculations about Russia / USSR / Islam by trying to take Geo-political events of today and read them into Ezekiel 38-39.<br /><br />Also, Isaiah 65:17 and 66:22 "new heavens and new earth" and surrounding context seems to take a lot of prophetic events (no more war, the wolf and the lion laying down together, etc.)- the NT takes that as being fulfilled in the eternal state (2 Peter 3; Revelation 21-22), not some Israel-centered animal sacrifices emphasized literal temple Millennium kind of thing. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-14326756078392433112019-10-11T13:18:01.684-04:002019-10-11T13:18:01.684-04:00There are a lot of allusions in the Gospel of John...There are a lot of allusions in the Gospel of John and the book of Revelation that seem to indicate that the fulfillment of the glory of God returning to the temple was fulfilled in Christ Himself.<br /><br />"glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth" John 1:14 (fulfillment of 43:1-5)<br /><br />The glory of God that left the temple in Ezekiel has returned in Christ.<br /><br />John 2:19-22 - the temple of His body is the true temple. (with 1:14)<br /><br />John 4:23-24 seems to be laying down worship principles that concede that there will no more temple in Jerusalem. <br /><br />The water and the healing of the nations mentioned in Ezekiel 40-48 is the Holy Spirit - John 7:37-39 - and as the gospel goes out to the nations in the church age - the fulfillment is experienced, then the full experience of the full healing is in the eternal state. (Revelation chapters 21-22)<br /><br />chapters 40-48 is "visions of God" - see chapter 1:1; 8:3; 11:24: 40:2, 43:3. <br /><br />It is very hard to accept that their needs to be a rebuilt Jewish temple with temple animal sacrifices for 1000 years which Ezekiel 40-48 says are "for atonement", in light of the book of Hebrews and the emphasis on "the once for all final sacrifice of Christ" - His atonement on the cross, etc. <br /><br />Also, Hebrews seems to say that the land promises to Israel are also already fulfilled in Christ and that the land of Canaan / promised land is a type of heaven (Hebrews chapter 4, 11:10; 11:16; 12:22-24; 13:14; see also Galatians 4:26 and 3:16, and Revelation 21:1-3), so the ultimate fulfillment of those OT texts are in the eternal state, not a future millennium. <br /><br />The weight of all that together makes me skeptical of a literal future Millennium with a rebuilt temple, animal sacrifices, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-3050089832604264732019-10-10T16:01:56.988-04:002019-10-10T16:01:56.988-04:00Surely Ezekiel 40-48 is prophecy.
It follows, Ez...Surely Ezekiel 40-48 is prophecy. <br /><br />It follows, Ezekiel 35-36 (God pronounces Judgment on arab squatters in the land of Israel). Ezekiel 38-39 (God executes on the Islamic world).<br /><br />After the battle of Gog and Magog we have the building of the third temple.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01320569420417469805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-41910037891726282202019-10-10T13:59:48.886-04:002019-10-10T13:59:48.886-04:00Steve - as long as we are on Ezk 40-48, do you hav...Steve - as long as we are on Ezk 40-48, do you have discussion about the premill view that in the future the temple sacrifices will return is some form?<br />Forgive me if Im changing subject on this thread. Ive just been puzzled by future temple sacrifices lately.Coreysanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10088111514772374098noreply@blogger.com