tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post398400800981014978..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Nuts-n-doltsRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-10087939174987969872008-04-08T21:58:00.000-04:002008-04-08T21:58:00.000-04:00I don't think Dyer's aim was to show Eastern Ortho...I don't think Dyer's aim was to show Eastern Orthodox canons correct. Rather his aim was to show that the Greek bible Christians inherited contained deutero canonicals. The fine details of which books are "correct" can't be proven by historical investigation, buy rather by the authority of the church. Your statement that no 2 codices match plays right into his trap. The point is that Christians inherited deuteros from the Jews in their Greek bibles. The details of settling a list is the province of the Church's authority.Seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08737627824681084222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-91983976880206014622008-04-08T20:56:00.000-04:002008-04-08T20:56:00.000-04:00All the evidence points that way, which is the bes...<I>All the evidence points that way, which is the best we can hope for in historical studies.</I><BR/><BR/>Actually,the onus is on you to show that the LXX's contents today were the same as those then since you're the ones making the argument that the Deuteros are there. <BR/><BR/>No 2 codices we have, however, match. So, no, Seraphim, you don't know that at all.<BR/><BR/>It's not sufficient to state that because the LXX contained the DC's that the Eastern Orthodox canons (and that's what you actually have - canons) are correct on the basis of the LXX. You must demonstrate that the LXX used then matches the canons as you have them now. Good luck with that.GeneMBridgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10504383610477532374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-13720049845992683012008-04-08T19:56:00.000-04:002008-04-08T19:56:00.000-04:00All the evidence points that way, which is the bes...All the evidence points that way, which is the best we can hope for in historical studies.Seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08737627824681084222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-48486590235240209732008-04-08T18:35:00.000-04:002008-04-08T18:35:00.000-04:00Seraphim said:"It's quite enough that we know Chri...Seraphim said:<BR/><BR/>"It's quite enough that we know Christians inherited a Greek bible from the Jews that contained deuteros."<BR/><BR/>You don't know that.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-35616490736102775652008-04-08T18:16:00.000-04:002008-04-08T18:16:00.000-04:00There is no such onus to prove a consistent set of...There is no such onus to prove a consistent set of books, nor is "the get-go" an issue. It's quite enough that we know Christians inherited a Greek bible from the Jews that contained deuteros.Seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08737627824681084222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-2799186078422319502008-04-08T15:29:00.000-04:002008-04-08T15:29:00.000-04:00The onus is not on me to show that the Greek Bible...The onus is not on me to show that the Greek Bible had the same books from the get-go. And since there's evidence to the contrary, the onus is squarely on you to show that deuterocanonicals which you specifically include were in the Greek Bible from the get-go.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-20310745643570670832008-04-08T09:58:00.000-04:002008-04-08T09:58:00.000-04:00Enlighten us then: what evidence is there that the...Enlighten us then: what evidence is there that the Greek bible was circulating without any deuteros.Seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08737627824681084222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-56603510133876567022008-04-08T08:51:00.000-04:002008-04-08T08:51:00.000-04:00Seraphim said...Nor is there any refutation of his...Seraphim said...<BR/><BR/>Nor is there any refutation of his main point, despite all the wandering off down rabbit holes: ALL the information we have indicates that there was an established Greek translation of the bible, which was widely used by Jews, and all the evidence says that these bibles in circulation contained deuteros. They didn't all contain the exact same deuteros, but that is irrelevant to the actual point. <BR/><BR/>The single data point of Philo and whether he did or didn't quote Wisdom as scripture.<BR/><BR/>*************************************<BR/><BR/>All the evidence doesn't point in that direction, and Philo isn't the "single data point" to the contrary.<BR/><BR/>In this thread I wasn't attempting to present all the evidence. Rather, I was responding to some specific arguments by some specific opponents.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-77545709527238040052008-04-08T02:50:00.000-04:002008-04-08T02:50:00.000-04:00"Which poses a dilemma for Dyer since he’s arbitra..."Which poses a dilemma for Dyer since he’s arbitrarily selective about what Jewish testimony he credits. "<BR/><BR/>Looks to me like Dyer is accepting Jewish testimony that agrees with the Church.<BR/><BR/>Now ummm, why Triablogue elevates its particular sources is much less clear.<BR/><BR/>Nor is there any refutation of his main point, despite all the wandering off down rabbit holes: ALL the information we have indicates that there was an established Greek translation of the bible, which was widely used by Jews, and all the evidence says that these bibles in circulation contained deuteros. They didn't all contain the exact same deuteros, but that is irrelevant to the actual point. <BR/><BR/>The single data point of Philo and whether he did or didn't quote Wisdom as scripture. How many books DID he quote as scripture? Why should we care about this particular stream of tradition over others anyway? We aren't told.Seraphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08737627824681084222noreply@blogger.com