tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post3122071627181707548..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: The covenant of worksRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-21503113640606948152010-11-01T08:45:22.377-04:002010-11-01T08:45:22.377-04:00DEAN DOUGH SAID:
“What clues in the text persuade...DEAN DOUGH SAID:<br /><br />“What clues in the text persuade you that Adam (and/or Eve) knew what the tree of life was for?”<br /><br />Although that’s a good question in its own right, my exposition didn’t really turn on that question.<br /><br />1.The reader and narrator probably know more about the significance of the tree than Adam and Eve. The narrative viewpoint takes in the whole Pentateuch. Adam and Eve weren’t privy to that overall perspective. And, of course, the reader and narrator had personal experience with human death.<br /><br />2.On the other hand, Adam and Eve were endowed with a certain amount of innate knowledge–more so than human beings who pass through the normal stages of childhood and maturation.<br /><br />3.They also knew what it was like to be alive. So they had some sense of what immortality would be like. <br /><br />They didn’t know what human death was like. But, then, even we lack a prior experience of our own mortality. (We only die once.) We simply extrapolate from the observation. <br /><br />4.It’s possible that they saw animal death in the garden. The account doesn’t furnish those details. <br /><br />5.They knew their duty. They knew the command. <br /><br />And part of duty sometimes involves obedient trust even if you don’t know the rationale for the command. Of course, only God is entitled to that carte blanche confidence and submission.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-63277593343543125642010-11-01T00:06:32.336-04:002010-11-01T00:06:32.336-04:00Steve you've made some assertions here that ne...Steve you've made some assertions here that need additional foundation.<br /><br />Steve said: <b><i>"The covenant of works in Gen 2 involves the continuation (and possibly confirmation) of a preexisting status, whereas subsequent covenants involve the initiation of a new status."</i></b><br /><br />What exactly is this new status?<br /><br />Does is have anything to do with being able to stand confidently in the presence of God, in innocence and without fear? Does it mean we will be seen to be acceptable and good by God? Will we be able to converse with him plainly and directly?<br /><br />Steve said: <b><i>".. eternal life for an unfallen creature isn’t interchangeable with eternal life for a redeemed creature."</i></b><br /><br />How so? Could you please amply?<br /><br />Steve said: <b><i>"However, the experience of a forgiven sinner is very different from the experience of a sinless creature."</i></b><br /><br />Yes, this is true, but this particular point is moot since God does not value the experience of sinfulness whatsoever.<br /><br />The difference, of course, between a forgiven sinner and a sinless creature is an infinite gap, but that gap's been bridged. The experience of sin ultimately won't matter much since Christ's death undoes all consequence of that experience, but that cost was infinitely great.<br /><br />Consider someone who refuses to rob a bank for the first time, because they believe it is wrong. Now compare that to someone who has robbed a bank previously, but refuses to rob the bank again because they've repented and been forgiven of their previous transgression.<br /><br />The only difference between the two, is the belief of the first (that robbing banks is wrong) was not based on experience while the belief of the second was. The cost of obtaining that belief in the second case, was far greater than the cost of obtaining it in the first place.<br /><br />Since obedience is better than sacrifice <b>[1 Sam 15:22]</b>, God calls us simply to belief Him, God does not want us to be forgiven sinners who have tasted the experience of disobedience, since the cost of dealing with disobedience is so costly. Rather He wants us to be sinless and acceptable before Him, just as we were in the beginning.<br /><br />God went to such extraordinary lengths to remove the consequence of our experience with sin, that even if a forgiven sinner is vastly different from a sinless creatures (because of that experience), it doesn't matter a whole lot since God's ultimate preference will to be to restore us to the state we were in the beginning, whatever range of sin we've experienced, whether we've experienced some particular sin or not.<br /><br />Even if we have our memories of sin, we will have no more reason to believe God, than what He gave us initially.ἐκκλησίαhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01011648681141436328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-85202831207878258872010-10-31T17:10:22.756-04:002010-10-31T17:10:22.756-04:00Steve,
I appreciate your distinction between unme...Steve,<br /><br />I appreciate your distinction between unmerited and demerited favor and the emphasis on the graciousness of the act of creation itself. What clues in the text persuade you that Adam (and/or Eve) knew what the tree of life was for?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08729965956946739033noreply@blogger.com