tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post1579561509777740445..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Weathercock apologeticsRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-6663286811272527822018-09-03T01:09:01.028-04:002018-09-03T01:09:01.028-04:00Wow, that's really neat to hear, Thanks, for s...Wow, that's really neat to hear, Thanks, for sharing that James. While I've never been Catholic (always been a Protestant) there was a time a few years ago when I started looking into Roman Catholicism to see if it was true. James White and his debates where a big reason I ended up not converting. Catholic apologists can talk a good game, but once their arguments are subjected to critical scrutiny they fall apart very quickly. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05758950969502817603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-2145610963275196872018-06-19T15:47:22.511-04:002018-06-19T15:47:22.511-04:00I'd be interested to chat as well. I grew up R...I'd be interested to chat as well. I grew up Roman Catholic, was Agnostic for a while as well, and have been Reformed Protestant for the past decade or so. I've also been doing a lot of apologetics with Muslims, Roman Catholics, and various other religious groups. My email is luisdizon219 (at) yahoo (dot) comFisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09374528489880046419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-51841002802991241632018-06-19T07:11:49.698-04:002018-06-19T07:11:49.698-04:00Sure. I'll drop a line latter today.Sure. I'll drop a line latter today.James McCloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02155211190204661934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-5708387602297083082018-06-19T04:41:34.567-04:002018-06-19T04:41:34.567-04:00James McCloud -- Can we compare notes some time? C...James McCloud -- Can we compare notes some time? Contact me ... my email address is simply johnbugay at gmail. John Bugayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17728044301053738095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-47508291799041018122018-06-18T15:50:15.581-04:002018-06-18T15:50:15.581-04:00That makes sense. I was telling a young Christian ...That makes sense. I was telling a young Christian kid today that I had read the New Testament a year or so before becoming a Christian and it made no sense. The Holy Spirit makes a big difference.geoffrobinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14949411893531888555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-38689842142576545632018-06-18T02:13:27.254-04:002018-06-18T02:13:27.254-04:00But later after my own historical foundations were...<i>But later after my own historical foundations were shaken and weakened, I listened to White's "Great Debates"</i> <b>again</b>. The debates I saw before and after my deconversion from Catholicism were the same. The content was the same, but my reaction to and processing of that content was different.James McCloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02155211190204661934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-59078537254289437192018-06-18T01:55:53.318-04:002018-06-18T01:55:53.318-04:00I was born into a Catholic family, confirmed in fa...I was born into a Catholic family, confirmed in faith, became a lay apologist on social media forums and other places debating Protestants and slamming them with Matt 16:18, James 2:24 etc; completely convinced of all the truths of Catholicism - except for its idolatry of Mary (which at that time I viewed as obsession with Mary). I ignored the latter for quite a while, until I couldn't. I was mesmerised by the Catholic Church. I was extremely proud about how old she was, that Peter was her first bishop, of all the theologians she produced, the authority she had from Christ, the wonderful art and architecture she produced - there was nothing wrong with her - err, except for her emphasis on Mary and Marian prayers which I found nowhere in the Bible at the time (which was puzzling). I actually sensed the presence of God in the Catholic Church, so all was otherwise okay - I thought. <br /><br />There were some other problems also like this one: I found it strange that after receiving the sacrament of reconciliation (confession), many priests would tell me to recite the "hail marys" or some Marian prayer as penance- and while at first I did it, later I started disobeying the priests' suggested Marian penance - instead making a small prayer to the God I offended. I disobeyed them because they did not make any conceivable sense. I saw no point in praising Mary (hail mary) or asking for her intercession (holy mary) when it was God who I had offended with my sins, and I had direct access to Him.<br /><br />During these years, I was also researching Islam, and Christian Islamic apologetics wasn't common at all for referencing. David Wood's ministry either hadn't started or I did not know about him. Therefore I had two choices: either study Islam to challenge it (via Sam Shamoun's website or using the Islamic sources themselves) or study Church history to defend Christianity. I chose the latter as I loved my "mother" church (which was the Catholic Church), and would have only enjoyed knowing more about her.<br /><br />Gradually the information I got from history did not align with what I believed to be true, unless I wanted to engage in Olympic level mental gymnastics. I had assumed earlier that there could be good reasons to venerated the saints like the apostolic churches doing it - but it wasnt the case at all. I believed that the papacy was actually traceable in the first century, and Peter was literally the first pope, but he wasnt. There was no papacy until a century later when the concept started taking shape. I gradually started realising the nonsense that I had been sold, and the mental gymnastics Catholic apologists employed to defend their beliefs.<br /><br />I had watched White's debates as a Catholic, and he did not persuade me, because I was convinced in my beliefs. In fact I thought White was hammered black and blue by all the Catholic apologists. But later after my own historical foundations were shaken and weakened, I listened to White's "Great Debates", and now I could see clear as day all of his major objections. <br /><br />This somehow ties up with Wood/White's controversy. I had heard White's gospel presentation many times, and still thought he was wrong because I was firmly rooted in my assumptions about my faith. Those assumptions had to be shaken by facts, and only then his presentation started making sense to me. And I was still a Christian who believed in the Life, Death and Resurrection of our Lord and his inerrant Word. How much more difficult would it be for a Muslim to cross over?<br /><br />This also goes to show the mental gymnastics one does to justify his position. That is why I believe that one's position should be grounded in both scripture <b>and</b> facts. I had access to scriptures before, but I interpreted it as a Catholic.<br /><br />Thought of sharing.James McCloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02155211190204661934noreply@blogger.com