tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post12441856377373693..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Avatar reviewRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-21687055414888759902010-01-07T19:15:50.213-05:002010-01-07T19:15:50.213-05:00Patrick Chan: "The movie is meant to be symb...<b>Patrick Chan</b>: "<i>The movie is meant to be symbolic, allegorical. After all, the movie is titled Avatar.</i>"<br /><br />See this <a href="http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2010/01/avatar-forums-are-hilariously-pathetic" rel="nofollow">link</a> on how the film has influenced some viewers.Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-59211962826208693342009-12-31T16:02:54.066-05:002009-12-31T16:02:54.066-05:00(Though the plug is appreciated, Rho[b]logy in no ...(Though the plug is appreciated, Rho[b]logy in no way endorses or approves the content of the preceding comment.)Rhologyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14245825667079220242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-41147509954998096212009-12-30T06:07:31.543-05:002009-12-30T06:07:31.543-05:00[cont.]
Dr. Niel Nielson: "I must add, eve...[cont.]<br /> <br /><b>Dr. Niel Nielson</b>: "I must add, even given what I have just said, that I dearly wish the gospel references had not been included in the Declaration. They introduce unnecessary ambiguity and provide unnecessary ground for the refusal of many Evangelicals to sign. With a more precisely disciplined focus on the main issues it addresses, the Declaration would have, I believe, garnered far wider support among Evangelicals and enabled this enterprise to have a vastly more far-reaching impact.<br /><br />So that’s why I almost didn’t sign The Manhattan Declaration – and why I did."<br /><br />--------<br /><br />So I recently read a very nice post by Rhoblogy titled "<b>The Special Pleading</b> of Sola Ecclesia-ists Claims to Unity" and I got to ponder Rhoblogy's argument that the RCC's are committing the fallacy of special pleading in their objection to <i>Sola Scriptura</i>. Well, it seems to me that Daniel J. Phillips may also be committing the fallacy of special pleading as well when comparing his reviews of Avatar and the Manhattan Declaration vis-a-vis authorial intent and "audiencial meaning."<br /><br />So if Dr. Nielson (and other conservative Protestant signers of the Manhattan Declaration) took the same evaluative approach towards the MD as Daniel J. Phillips himself did towards his review of the movie "Avatar" with regards to (failed) authorial intent and "audiencial meaning," then why is Daniel J. Phillips (and other conservative anti-MD Protestants) so bitter and angry towards the conservative Protestants who sign and support the Manhattan Declaration?Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-25249673863990278652009-12-30T06:06:18.625-05:002009-12-30T06:06:18.625-05:00[Cross-post]
Where Is Meaning?
This is a very he...[Cross-post]<br /><br /><a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2009/12/where-is-meaning.html" rel="nofollow">Where Is Meaning?</a><br /><br />This is a very helpful post and I see applications of it in both the reviews of the movie "Avatar" and in the Manhattan Declaration.<br /><br />For example:<br /><br /><b>Patrick Chan</b>: "The movie is meant to be symbolic, allegorical."<br /><br /><b>Steve Hays</b> <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2009/12/osamas-little-helpers.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>: "That’s because the film is a set-up. Like any adept propagandist, Cameron is attempting–quite successfully, in Billy’s case–to sway the attitudes and emotions of the audience. ... It’s not a godly attribute to root for a thinly-veiled political allegory which slanders the very men who put their lives on the line to protect us from our mortal enemies. ... The only reason that Cameron has to specify an American force is because the film is a political allegory, ostensibly set in the future, but really about the “war on terror” and other alleged atrocities of US domestic and foreign policy."<br /><br /><b>Daniel J. Phillips</b> <a href="http://bibchr.blogspot.com/2009/12/avatar-movie-review.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>: "I had read that Avatar was about pantheism, Gaia-worship, and evil America. I disagree... sort of.<br />...<br />Is the film anti-military? Well, the soldiers there are ex-military; they are hirelings to the evil corporation. They are not the American Army, nor Navy, nor Air Force, nor Marines. So on the face of it, no. ...<br /><br />Therefore, I don't receive Avatar as a sermon about pantheism, Gaia-worship, Hinduism, America, the war on terror, nor eco-fascism.<br /><br />Now, I think that may be in the authorial intent. But if so, it failed to reach the screen.<br />...<br />Briefly, then: Cameron may well have intended a heavy-handed parable preaching the joys of pantheistic Gaia-worship, and the evils of America, George Bush, the war on terror, the military, and capitalism.<br /><br />If so, Cameron failed miserably, pathetically, and laughably, because there is no actual connection."<br /><br />So by the above we see that there is a spectrum of opinion about the interplay between political allegory, authorial intent, and what Steve calls "audiencial meaning" from the movie "Avatar".<br /><br />Now let's do the same thing with the Manhattan Declaration as we just did with the "Avatar" review:<br /><br /><b>Daniel J. Phillips</b> <a href="http://teampyro.blogspot.com/2009/11/nineteen-questions-for-signers-of.html#7425976959295048987" rel="nofollow">here</a>: "BTW, MD mastermind Chuck Colson wrote this:<br />"This document [The Manhattan Declaration] is, in fact, a form of catechism for the foundational truths of the faith."<br /><br />Which very nicely (if tragically) underscores the point of my post.<br /><br />Yeah, Stan; and authorial intent is supposed to matter to us, no?"<br /><br /><b>Dr. Niel Nielson</b> <a href="http://president.blogs.covenant.edu/2009/12/11/why-i-almost-didnt-sign-the-manhattan-declaration/" rel="nofollow">here</a>: "Some have pointed to statements from Chuck Colson which reflect his views about the purpose and hoped-for outcome of the Declaration as evidence of how misguided Evangelicals have been in signing. Let me be clear: With as much respect and appreciation for Chuck as I have, <b>I did not – and do not – sign on to his commentaries about the Declaration, nor do I expect him, or anyone else, to sign on to mine.</b> Together we signed the Declaration because of what it states so clearly and well, and I, for one, did so with unswerving conviction about the biblical gospel and the biblical doctrines articulated in the Protestant Reformation."<br />[cont.]Truth Unites... and Divideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08891402278361538353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-22333708516531498102009-12-22T19:42:24.929-05:002009-12-22T19:42:24.929-05:00Thanks for your comments, guys.Thanks for your comments, guys.Patrick Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095377877712197984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-86502373092107488212009-12-22T13:22:00.482-05:002009-12-22T13:22:00.482-05:00jstimages, I personally think Christians should be...jstimages, I personally think Christians should be doing just that in the movie industry and all industries, however God has gifted and placed them. <br /><br />But we can appreciate the common grace bestowed upon unbelievers as reflected in their creations, even as they unwittingly demonstrate the fact that they bear the <i>imago dei</i>. <br /><br />Also, we can (and should) exercise our sense of discernment to be able to sift the good from the bad. I appreciate the way the Triabloggers do this.Kurt Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17922190564522510470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-71501605085573952142009-12-22T13:11:55.428-05:002009-12-22T13:11:55.428-05:00It is interesting when you go to a movie expecting...It is interesting when you go to a movie expecting to see a biblically center redemptive story made by non-christians. Instead of worrying about the bias of people who don't know the truth of the greatest story of redemption every played out in the merciful love of the triune God for an unworthy people why don't we encourage christian artists and writers to create stories and movies that can retell that story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-39645533783566990792009-12-22T12:50:36.058-05:002009-12-22T12:50:36.058-05:00I just watched it last night. Reaction: loved it. ...I just watched it last night. Reaction: loved it. <br /><br />Now, as Steve and Patrick have pointed out, the film <i>is</i> loaded with liberal, mystical, pseudospiritual tree-hugging mumbo-jumbo, but as Patrick noted, there are grains of truth in the mix. And let me tell you...the mix is <i>pretty</i> amazing. <br /><br />But on to the positive points:<br /><br />First, who would argue that the wholesale theft by the powerful of property belonging to the weak is a good thing? Biblical ethics protects the rights of the weak from the strong.<br /><br />It's also true that mankind's responsibility over creation is that of a steward, and having an organic, non-exploitative relationship with creation is surely a positive thing. It has always struck me as odd that mankind seems to encase himself in a less and less natural environment of concrete and brick--a radical remodeling of God's creation to suit the designs of man.<br /><br />Also, the mind of man to create novelty and beauty is revealed in Avatar. IMHO Pandora is a wondrous creation--clearly intelligently designed (both inside and outside the story itself). Observing this beauty made me nostalgic for the new heavens and the new earth, which I know will far exceed Pandora in beauty and splendor.<br /><br />In a distant way, the "conversion" of Jake Sully reminded me of the conversion of the apostle Paul. Ordered to spy upon and plan the an attack upon the Na'vi, Jake ended up joining with them and fighting with them, after his diplomacy towards the military failed (I think it's interesting to note that "diplomacy" seems to function as a liberal equivalent to the gospel in some contexts). It's just too bad that he (and the other "good guys") were portrayed favorably in their service to a false deity, rather than the One True God.<br /><br />With regard to <a href="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2009/12/avatar.html" rel="nofollow">Steve's critique</a> of Avatar, I'd have to say that <i>although</i> the film seems have the War on Terror as its explicitly-stated real-life referent, I'd much more readily associate it with the dispossession of Native Americans from their ancestral tribal lands by encroaching settlers. The Na'vi's religion, culture, etc. <i>hardly</i> resemble Islam. Whether Cameron had this in mind or not is unknown to me, but the Amerindian situation seems to be a much closer fit.Kurt Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17922190564522510470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-44912366372947103102009-12-22T06:53:52.402-05:002009-12-22T06:53:52.402-05:00Moreover:
On the one hand, Cameron is apparently ...Moreover:<br /><br />On the one hand, Cameron is apparently censuring corporations for vices like selfishness and greed.<br /><br />But on the other hand, he reportedly spent somewhere around $300 million to make his film. No expense was spared, I don't think.Patrick Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095377877712197984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-9277289307867084842009-12-22T06:41:02.080-05:002009-12-22T06:41:02.080-05:00Thanks, everyone.
Another point:
I think Camero...Thanks, everyone.<br /><br />Another point: <br /><br />I think Cameron's movie is kinda self-refuting, or somewhat contradictory. <br /><br />On the one hand, it seems to me Cameron wants to get across a message of peace and even pacifism, that fighting is inherently wrong, and likewise that harmony with one another and nature and the oneness of all life are what's most meaningful.<br /><br />But on the other hand, the movie is quite violent. In fact, judging by the various battle scenes in the film, I'd say it's almost as if Cameron revels in depicting warfare. <br /><br />Instead, why not make the Na'vi more like, say, Gandhi, and their resistance a nonviolent resistance?<br /><br />Or would Cameron concede it sometimes requires war to have peace?Patrick Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095377877712197984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-37937709081474403312009-12-21T17:26:32.847-05:002009-12-21T17:26:32.847-05:00Thanks for the review. I have no interest in seei...Thanks for the review. I have no interest in seeing the movie as I knew the liberal bias would be there when I saw the trailer. Cameron is a Hollywood lib who has an agenda (as he did in Titanic). Movies do however paint a picture of what the society upholds.The Seeking Disciplehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850752852586928341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-76742223606482463212009-12-21T11:38:23.553-05:002009-12-21T11:38:23.553-05:00From all the reviews I've been reading, it see...From all the reviews I've been reading, it seem like this movie is the outer space version of "A Man Called Horse."Mike Westfallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06944727980772754938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-68319733076333536332009-12-21T08:58:45.467-05:002009-12-21T08:58:45.467-05:00Thanks for the review. And for speaking the Gospel...Thanks for the review. And for speaking the Gospel in love. It's always good to hear the good news of Christ our King and Savior.donsandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03665794015011057098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-70354536872057230072009-12-21T01:40:58.998-05:002009-12-21T01:40:58.998-05:00I think the best review of this movie was given by...I think the best review of this movie was given by the Spoony One:<br /><br />"That's it?"<br /><br />It took Cameron 12 years to execute Ferngully with the smurfs + the matrix in video game graphics?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com