tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post115893847375182245..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Secular amoralityRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1159366715644019462006-09-27T10:18:00.000-04:002006-09-27T10:18:00.000-04:00patrick,your friend is delusional. clear distinct...patrick,<BR/><BR/>your friend is delusional. clear distinctions must be made when discussing ethics and philosophy:<BR/>1) What someone in fact morally ought to do.<BR/>2) What someone <B>believes</B> he morally ought to do<BR/>3) What someone is motivated to do<BR/>4) What someone actually does<BR/><BR/>Establishing 1 relies upon moral realism. If there are moral facts, then there is good and evil. If there are not, there is no good and evil. <BR/><BR/>Atheists (me) need not be sweeping and overcommitted physicalists. That bothers you presups, and completely disallows you your favorite stock lines, "account for this". I can, of course, say that logic and morality (and induction) are properly basic, and presuppose them just as you do the existence of God and his beloved little book. I can also refer to the various accounts that exist, from Platonic views of logic to dualist views of mental substances to linguistic modules...&c<BR/><BR/>The question is, let us say that you (somehow) are able to show each one as false. What have you done? Nothing. You have shown me that explanations for "why/how" logic exists are just as vacuous as your (pseudo) explanations for "why/how" God exists, or "why/how" morality is explained by "God's nature". <BR/><BR/>It is sad that so many people let you quasi-thinkers off the hook here.<BR/><BR/>Back to moral realism for a moment:<BR/><BR/>Let us say that there may or may not be moral facts.<BR/><BR/>God is defined as omnipotent and omnibenevolent. That which is all-powerful and all-good must accomplish (by definition) its purposes without inducing or allowing evil.<BR/><BR/>If there is evil, there is no God.<BR/><BR/>If there are no moral facts, there is no God (by defintion).<BR/><BR/>Looks like you lose either way. <BR/><BR/>Your only hope is to say "there is God and there is evil, but..." just as theists throughout time have, and have always failed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1159365208305858102006-09-27T09:53:00.000-04:002006-09-27T09:53:00.000-04:00So you have one atheist who is a relativist and th...So you have one atheist who is a relativist and that undoes the PoE?<BR/><BR/>You're a great thinker, Manata.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1158974818531514402006-09-22T21:26:00.000-04:002006-09-22T21:26:00.000-04:00The folks at DC ought to disagree...since then the...The folks at DC ought to disagree...since then they can't react with moral outrage everything you mock them.lycaphimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14310741279438676739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1158949775910907992006-09-22T14:29:00.000-04:002006-09-22T14:29:00.000-04:00In sorta the same vein, I had a sad discussion wit...In sorta the same vein, <A HREF="http://merbc.invigorated.org/archives/2006/09/03/vanity-of-vanities/" REL="nofollow">I had a sad discussion with a friend</A> not too long ago.Patrick Chanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16095377877712197984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1158938849657697382006-09-22T11:27:00.000-04:002006-09-22T11:27:00.000-04:00so much for the "big gun" of atheologians: The (so...so much for the "big gun" of atheologians: The (so-called) Problem of EvilErrorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10615233201833238198noreply@blogger.com