tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post114178751413948993..comments2024-03-27T17:15:37.606-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Seeker Sensitive vs. Seeker DrivenRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1141860474023365472006-03-08T18:27:00.000-05:002006-03-08T18:27:00.000-05:00Hey Jim:Now I better understand your thoughts, so ...Hey Jim:<BR/><BR/>Now I better understand your thoughts, so I am better able to clarify. I would call Rick Warren and company Seeker <I>driven</I>, for they mistake, as my post states, the <I>effects</I> of the gospel for <I>the gospel itself</I>. The gospel isn't feeding the poor. The gospel isn't feeling joy inside. The gospel, rather, is the wrath of God against sin satisfied through Christ received by faith.<BR/><BR/>I would, however, also disagree with Miller's statements. The church <I>should</I> be concerned about the needs of the people ( material and immaterial; eternal and temporal). But feeding the poor, having joy inside, and even living a good life are all <I>results</I> of the gospel, not the gospel itself. But they are still necessary results.<BR/><BR/>Thanks,<BR/>Evan.Evan Mayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287475721156396697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1141851693385562352006-03-08T16:01:00.000-05:002006-03-08T16:01:00.000-05:00Thanks for your answer Evan. While that does clea...Thanks for your answer Evan. While that does clear up some of what I was inquiring about, let me cut to the chase a little more.<BR/><BR/>I think there's a good chance that the seeker sensitive / purpose driven camp could misunderstand the term "needs" in this post. I'm not sure, to what degree you are agreeing with their views, if at all. Here's a couple of quotes that I think will present what I'm asking:<BR/><BR/>Rick Warren: "It is my deep conviction that anybody can be won to Christ if you discover the key to his or her heart, and the most likely place to start looking for that key is within the person's <B>felt needs</B>."<BR/><BR/>And on the flip side of the coin, with the opposite point of view, Pastor Clay Miller: "We shouldn't care one bit about someone's <B>felt needs</B>. We don't need a survey to determine a pagan's felt needs, I can save $20,000 for somebody that's thinking about doing<BR/>[such a survey]. A pagan's felt needs are comfort, sex, money and recognition - there you go, you don't need a survey. And what we care about is the true need which is reconciliation to God . . . that's the need that we care about."<BR/><BR/>If we are talking about helping out widows and the poor and needy in our community, then that's another type of need than the seeker camp often talks about when they say "felt needs".<BR/><BR/>Thanks Evan, love your postings! Keep up the great work here and on your own blog.Jim Bublitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16888150295999667219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1141845190442803132006-03-08T14:13:00.000-05:002006-03-08T14:13:00.000-05:00Hey Jim:When the Bible uses the word "Spiritual," ...Hey Jim:<BR/><BR/>When the Bible uses the word "Spiritual," it is normally in reference to the Holy <I>Spirit</I> and his work. We tend to use it as "immaterial," so that nothing material can be "spiritual." But “Spiritual needs” are needs that concern 1) the needs of the person’s spirit, and 2) the work of the Holy Spirit. They can have material and immaterial manifestations.<BR/><BR/>Pastors (shepherds) have the responsibility of making sure the Spiritual needs of the congregation are met (notice that I said they <I>make sure</I> the needs are met, not that they necessarily meet the needs themselves. Pastors and Teachers were given to the church that the church may be equipped to do the work of ministry <I>itself</I>, Eph 4:11-12). These "spiritual needs" have both material and non-material manifestations.<BR/><BR/>This is why the church should be concerned about the seeker, concerned about the needs of the people; for as shepherds it is their responsibility to see that the Spiritual needs (whether material or immaterial) are being met.Evan Mayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287475721156396697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1141824767113208142006-03-08T08:32:00.000-05:002006-03-08T08:32:00.000-05:00This posting would be clearer to me if you would e...This posting would be clearer to me if you would explain what you mean by "meeting needs". What needs are we talking about? The seeker's felt-needs, or actual physical needs, or spiritual needs that they don't even recognize as needs? Perhaps you could comment further on that. Thank you.Jim Bublitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16888150295999667219noreply@blogger.com