tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post113986695161174756..comments2024-03-14T14:41:17.663-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Forgiveness Through Propitiation: Answering Loftus' QuestionRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1139890247856005272006-02-13T23:10:00.000-05:002006-02-13T23:10:00.000-05:00Is Forensic Justification “Poppycock”?<A HREF="http://triablogue.blogspot.com/2006/02/is-forensic-justification-poppycock.html" REL="nofollow">Is Forensic Justification “Poppycock”?</A>Evan Mayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287475721156396697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1139890065947205122006-02-13T23:07:00.000-05:002006-02-13T23:07:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Evan Mayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287475721156396697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1139884655406773132006-02-13T21:37:00.000-05:002006-02-13T21:37:00.000-05:00The cross of Christ was a propitiatory sacrifice i...<B>The cross of Christ was a propitiatory sacrifice in the sense that it satisfied the wrath of God.</B> <BR/><BR/>Exactly why was God angry? Are you affirming that by my pride I tried to usurp his throne? Poppycock! Absolute poppycock. The fact that I once touted this crap is a surprise to me now.<BR/><BR/><B>For God to simply forgive a person apart from the cross would be an unjust act. It would be an unrighteous act. It would be an unholy act. It would fail to satisfy his wrath. Going back to the illustration of the courts, it is not the duty of the court to forgive the offender. The same is true with God.</B><BR/><BR/>Poppycock! Absolute poppycock. The fact that I once touted this crap is a surprise to me now.<BR/><BR/>In this case the person primarily offended by our sins is God. He is the primary offended party. While others on a <I>horizontal plane</I> might feel slighted by comparison, God is the primary one offended. In this case, there doesn’t need to be any punishment between offender and offended, even though God is also the judge. Why? If God is a person at all then he responds toward us as a person, a father, and even as a creator who cares for us, not a harsh and demanding judge.<BR/><BR/>Your God is primarily a judge and not a father. He’s an aloof potentate who rules his people like the Kings of old did over the serfs and peasants. The very image bespeaks of a God who doesn’t really love us, but cares more for administering punishment to offenders in a kingdom of serfs.<BR/><BR/>But God wants to be known as a father, a person, a lover, and even as a friend of sinners--in Jesus. <B>All I am saying is that forgiveness between persons does not involve punishment, or retaliation, repentance, or reparations.</B> Show me the logical and rational relationship between punishment and forgiveness between persons. That's all you have to do.<BR/><BR/>The only way you can have your cake and eat it too, is to affirm that God does not respond to us as a person, but as a judge, a potentate, and a ruler. And even then, since he is the primary party offended, there needs to be no punishment.<BR/><BR/>It would be like living in a kingdom where we slightly offend each other from time to time. But none of us would ever want any of our worst enemies to be punished in ways that the King will do when he's offended by the very same actions that have merely slighted us. We would all desire that our enemies were all completely forgiven, including us ourselves, than suffer under the wrath of that aloof potentate who only cares about a infinite tit for a finite tat. None of us would be happy about such a king at all, nor that he would have had to punish his own Son, when none of us would have wanted anyone to be punished at all. We would think such a God is a monster, a weirdo, and even retarded.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13900843579715907140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1139875602701745572006-02-13T19:06:00.000-05:002006-02-13T19:06:00.000-05:00hmmm, I just posted on Loftus myself: http://pres...hmmm, I just posted on Loftus myself: http://presstheantithesis.blogspot.com/2006/02/debunking-john-w-loftus.htmlErrorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10615233201833238198noreply@blogger.com