tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post1049601316225786273..comments2024-03-14T14:41:17.663-04:00Comments on Triablogue: Debunking Dr. AvalosRyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17809283662428917799noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-32507673079611581312008-07-15T17:01:00.000-04:002008-07-15T17:01:00.000-04:00Joe:With the way apostrophes are incorrectly used ...Joe:<BR/><BR/>With the way apostrophes are incorrectly used these days, are you certain you didn't go to <I>Useful Idiots R U's</I>?<BR/><BR/>I'm just checking...<BR/><BR/>--<BR/>StanStan, the Half-Truth Tellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04260266801557543879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-82256000159951209322008-07-15T11:18:00.000-04:002008-07-15T11:18:00.000-04:00What I find unconvincing about Loftus's constant r...What I find unconvincing about Loftus's constant refrain that he is an honest doubter is his blanket statement, more than once, that even if he were to admit that Christianity is true he WOULD NOT follow it.<BR/><BR/>Further, he has said that the advantage of his books is that they serve as a "slow acting poison" (his words) that can serve to destroy a person's faith in a time of crises.<BR/><BR/>He is not seeking honest argument at all.<BR/><BR/>It is more in the nature of a propaganda campaign.<BR/><BR/>And just try reviewing his material on Amazon, he will personally comment and call you names...he did it to a friend of mine.<BR/><BR/>But rest assured, we will be posting reviews of his new Book, and he won't be able to delete them!Emanuel Goldsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02653303041185240250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-72978291964352858532008-07-15T05:52:00.000-04:002008-07-15T05:52:00.000-04:00Dr. Avalos has responded.Eat that!Dr. Avalos has <A HREF="http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/07/dr-avalos-v-triablogue-moses-is-basket.html" REL="nofollow">responded</A>.<BR/><BR/>Eat that!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-52958321498818762122008-07-13T11:50:00.000-04:002008-07-13T11:50:00.000-04:00what I mean when I say I've done self publishing b...what I mean when I say I've done self publishing but in a way that removs the onus of being self published, here's what I mean:<BR/><BR/>I started an academic journal, Negations. It was a real journal, refereed, achieved, indexed, we were getting ISSN number when I had to put it to bed.<BR/><BR/>I wrote articles for my own journal. I was the publisher, not the editor, but the editor was a good buddy. The other editors and staff were all friends. So it might appear that I just got my stuff automatically every time, after all it was my journal.<BR/><BR/>However, I didn't do that. I sent my papers to the referees fro pier review just as everyone else. It was a blind submission and they did not know me that well anyway. But they didn't know whose papers they were reading.<BR/><BR/>This is what you need to do. you need a pier review process that is not just a rubber stamp but a real mark of having to meet a standard.<BR/><BR/>that's the whole reason that self publishing is frowned upon anyway. anyone can write a book and publish it himself. the whole thing could be "Mary had a little lamb" over and over for a thousand pages, if you had the money to print it you could get it on amazon and get your friends to say its brilliant.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying that's what your book is, I'm just saying why self publishing is bad. <BR/><BR/>btw <A HREF="http://www.datawranglers.com/negations/" REL="nofollow">here is the journal I published</A>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-83063916177559545282008-07-13T11:38:00.000-04:002008-07-13T11:38:00.000-04:00Listen, I like Joe. He knows it too. And he also t...Listen, I like Joe. He knows it too. And he also thinks we are a respectful lot over at DC. He said so recently. But he also got out of hand over there and apologized for doing so. When you provoke people you will get fired upon, yes.<BR/><BR/><B>I consider John a friend. He is willing to forgive when I make an ass of myself. That's a friend. We don't agree on our major world views but then, that's not a prerequisite for friendship, not to me it isn't.</B><BR/><BR/>You should also know I have given free reign to the admins there to publish within certain guidlines. Sometimes those guidlines aren't followed. But I didn't publish the comment you linked to. Someone else did.<BR/><BR/><B>I have done self publishing of sorts. I did it in a way that is less frowned upon the academy. John apparently has tumbled to that yet, but maybe I am off the mark in my criticisms. IF I have to do my book through the self publishing ting on Amazon I hope by friends will write good reviews for it. So maybe I should drop that line.</B><BR/><BR/>When Joe writes something that is plainly stupid, like, all we want is to plug our books, then I think the word "duffas" is appropriate to get his head out of his ass, especially since he and I have more in common than you boys and he. Why doesn't he see the nose that's plainly on his face, I don't know. But he doesn't.<BR/><BR/><B>no that's fair enough. I can dig that. I've been known to be an ass. that doesn't damage our friendship. just like when I tell John that he avoid real argument and uses lines like "read my book" to give the impression that he has an answer but the answer is always receding into one previously written blog piece that you can't find after another and he never does actually get around to direct clash, I'm sure that doesn't damage the friendship.</B><BR/><BR/>And the principle of charity is not an inspired principle to be used in all cases, either. You never use it when it comes to infidels and apostates because we're unworthy, whereas I almost always use it with rare exceptions.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>I agree that I don't find a lot of compassion among fundamentalists in the heat of battle, but as I have continually challenged all atheists, go to an atheist board, pretend to be a Christian, and see how they treat you.</B><BR/><BR/>7/12/2008 2:53 PMJoseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-48728347694024200202008-07-13T11:29:00.000-04:002008-07-13T11:29:00.000-04:00What John Loftus doesn’t know is that us Tbloggers...What John Loftus doesn’t know is that us Tbloggers on are Joe Hinman’s payroll. You see, Joe is using Loftus as a useful idiot to unwittingly promote Joe’s forthcoming book. When DC launches a public attack on Joe, that merely raises Joe’s public profile. It’s free advertising.<BR/><BR/>But Joe needed to lure Loftus and his fellow debunkers out into the open and make them play into his hands. So he used the Tbloggers as bait.<BR/><BR/>He went to Useful Idiots R Us (a recruiting firm for useful idiots), and hired the Tbloggers as temporary useful idiots to dupe Loftus. It’s like that Victor/Victoria movie where Julie Andrews plays a woman playing a man playing a woman.<BR/><BR/>And you took the bait, John. Hook, line, and sinker. Joe was using us as useful idiots so that he could use you and your team as useful idiots. Joe’s just too clever for you, John. He played you for a chump.<BR/><BR/>Joe and I were snickering about it as he paid me for my services.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>ahahahahahahahahahahaahahahah<BR/><BR/>I don't always agree with you guys in the conclusions you draw, as John notes, but one they thing they cannot beat you on is sense of humor. they have none and you guys are a riot, I mean that in a good way.</B>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-25040641521480082952008-07-13T11:08:00.000-04:002008-07-13T11:08:00.000-04:00Steve said...Joe and I were snickering about it as...Steve said...<I>Joe and I were snickering about it as he paid me for my services.</I><BR/><BR/>And is there any reason why I can't like this guy?<BR/><BR/>Hmmmm. That I'll have to think about.......Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-5675792044979543782008-07-13T11:07:00.000-04:002008-07-13T11:07:00.000-04:00Joe said...I see how they are. you got it backward...Joe said...<I>I see how they are. you got it backwards man. <B>they are my useful idiots.</B></I><BR/><BR/>Is there any reason why I can't like this guy?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-30507977730116866132008-07-13T11:06:00.000-04:002008-07-13T11:06:00.000-04:00What John Loftus doesn’t know is that us Tbloggers...What John Loftus doesn’t know is that us Tbloggers on are Joe Hinman’s payroll. You see, Joe is using Loftus as a useful idiot to unwittingly promote Joe’s forthcoming book. When DC launches a public attack on Joe, that merely raises Joe’s public profile. It’s free advertising. <BR/><BR/>But Joe needed to lure Loftus and his fellow debunkers out into the open and make them play into his hands. So he used the Tbloggers as bait. <BR/><BR/>He went to Useful Idiots R Us (a recruiting firm for useful idiots), and hired the Tbloggers as temporary useful idiots to dupe Loftus. It’s like that Victor/Victoria movie where Julie Andrews plays a woman playing a man playing a woman.<BR/><BR/>And you took the bait, John. Hook, line, and sinker. Joe was using us as useful idiots so that he could use you and your team as useful idiots. Joe’s just too clever for you, John. He played you for a chump.<BR/><BR/>Joe and I were snickering about it as he paid me for my services.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-39529392928477342872008-07-13T10:23:00.000-04:002008-07-13T10:23:00.000-04:00John, the one thing you and I don't have in commo...John, the one thing you and I don't have in common and that the Triblogue guys and I do have in common is that you threw Jesus out of you heart, for some reason which I don't get, and I have not.<BR/><BR/>that outweighs everything else.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-44688807864980807062008-07-13T10:20:00.000-04:002008-07-13T10:20:00.000-04:00Joe said...The whole Mocking Christianity site (de...Joe said...The whole Mocking Christianity site (debunking, which for them is nothing but mocking) is a game. They try to sell their badly written books and spend all their time plugging each other on Amazon. I suspect that's the true function of the blog.<BR/><BR/>I gues you've never written a book, eh? I also gather you also don't know what it's like to feel you did a good job on it and want others to read it. <BR/><BR/><B>I have no written a book unless you count a Ph.D dissertation. But I am writing one now. I can understand your feelings. That wasn't' what I said. Go back and look at the criticism again. I'm not criticizing that you think your book is good. It probalby is, I said badly written based upon reading Hecotor's book.<BR/><BR/>the marketing I'm objecting to.</B><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>You too plug that which you write (in the thread above), so why the blatant hypocricy? We all plug that which we write, silly. Nor do you understand that no author but a bestselling author is fairly compensated monetarily for his work. Why do teachers teach? It's not to get rich you duffas!<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>I don't do a self published book then get friends to write reviews on amazing and make it look like a real publisher chose it and people who don't know me love it.</B><BR/><BR/>Furthermore, why do you think we have "badly written books" until or unless you've read them? Isn't that jumping the gun?<BR/><BR/><B>I read Hector's book. I should not have said that without informing the reading that I have not read your book.</B><BR/><BR/><BR/> Is it your habit to regularly believe things without any evidence? There are people who have read mine who don't think it's a bad book, even Christian apologists and philosophers, to the point of recommending it.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>I guess I better read it. I am of the opinion that is probably good.</B><BR/><BR/>Lastly, you don't realize that the people at Triablogue are treating you like a "useful idiot." That's right. You are ignorant not to see this. They will turn on you with invectives and ad hominems in a heart beat, you liberal! They hate liberals just as much as they hate atheists. These people are not your friends.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>I see how they are. you got it backwards man. they are my useful idiots.</B><BR/><BR/>You and I have more things in common than you do with them, and yet you continue to attack me. Go ahead then, but wait and see what the Triabloguers have to say about your theology next time around. Then you'll know exactly what I mean.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>I am sure they think I'm the spawn of satan. You are right you and I have more in common then I do with them.<BR/><BR/>but the problem is you are not fari in attacks on Christianity. none of you are. You act like the only kind of Christinaity is fundie and when you do make a small number of posts you have made saying why you don't accept liberal Christianity you really don't deal fairly with it.<BR/><BR/>Just saying "read my book" is nto an argument. you refuse to argue. you wont come out in the open where we can really clash.<BR/><BR/>I could clash as a gentleman. you wont give me a chance to have a fair exchange in the open where we both really go into it. if we could get down to cases I'm sure I could get you to see the problem with your world view.</B><BR/><BR/>Get your head on straight, Joe, please.<BR/><BR/><BR/><B>keep your little minions going off the deep end and cursing at me every time I say something they don't understand.</B>Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-84054960475452661062008-07-12T20:25:00.000-04:002008-07-12T20:25:00.000-04:00And the principle of charity is not an inspired pr...<I>And the principle of charity is not an inspired principle to be used in all cases, either.</I><BR/><BR/>Obviously, for you, it's not...it's just another ad hoc "principle" that you can't ground in your atheism. If we're all just blobs of protoplasm, then what does it matter how you're treated.<BR/><BR/>And notice here that this is a caveat not in your original. It's not to be used in all cases, so where can we find the list of exceptions that gives you license not to use it. We'll wait for another of your ad hoc restrictions.<BR/><BR/><I>Why doesn't he see the nose that's plainly on his face, I don't know. But he doesn't.<BR/></I> You never use it when it comes to infidels and apostates because we're unworthy, whereas I almost always use it with rare exceptions.<BR/><BR/>Contrary to your continued misrepresentation, we don't believe here that only conservative, evangelical Calvinists are "worthy." Indeed, not all of us fit that mold here.<BR/><BR/><I>You never use it when it comes to infidels and apostates because we're unworthy, whereas I almost always use it with rare exceptions.</I><BR/><BR/>You're such a liar. We've never said you're treated the way you're treated because you're "unworthy." Quite the opposite is the case. You're quite "worthy" of the treatment you receive precisely because you're an apostate, not just any apostate, you're one who tries to drag others along with you. We've been over this with you so many times I've lost count, and you still can't state the truth of the matter. You tell others they are "hypocrites" and then proceed to play the part quite well yourself. Good job.GeneMBridgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10504383610477532374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-69276765635613785592008-07-12T16:53:00.000-04:002008-07-12T16:53:00.000-04:00Listen, I like Joe. He knows it too. And he also t...Listen, I like Joe. He knows it too. And he also thinks we are a respectful lot over at DC. He said so recently. But he also got out of hand over there and apologized for doing so. When you provoke people you will get fired upon, yes. <BR/><BR/>You should also know I have given free reign to the admins there to publish within certain guidlines. Sometimes those guidlines aren't followed. But I didn't publish the comment you linked to. Someone else did. <BR/><BR/>When Joe writes something that is plainly stupid, like, all we want is to plug our books, then I think the word "duffas" is appropriate to get his head out of his ass, especially since he and I have more in common than you boys and he. Why doesn't he see the nose that's plainly on his face, I don't know. But he doesn't.<BR/><BR/>And the principle of charity is not an inspired principle to be used in all cases, either. You never use it when it comes to infidels and apostates because we're unworthy, whereas I almost always use it with rare exceptions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-1094857229725537462008-07-12T14:31:00.000-04:002008-07-12T14:31:00.000-04:00Hmmm, in another thread, just a few days ago, John...Hmmm, in another thread, just a few days ago, John, you went on and on about "the principle of charity" and waxed indignant about the way you're treated here...<BR/><BR/>and here you are saying now:<BR/><BR/>I gues you've never written a book, eh? I also gather you also don't know what it's like to feel you did a good job on it and want others to read it. You too plug that which you write (in the thread above), so why the blatant hypocricy? We all plug that which we write, silly. Nor do you understand that no author but a bestselling author is fairly compensated monetarily for his work. Why do teachers teach? It's not to get rich you duffas!<BR/><BR/>Then we can see how Joe was treated on your blog.<BR/><BR/>John, how many personalities are in there?GeneMBridgeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10504383610477532374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-68267007250386917232008-07-12T10:34:00.000-04:002008-07-12T10:34:00.000-04:00JOHN W. LOFTUS SAID:“Lastly, you don't realize tha...JOHN W. LOFTUS SAID:<BR/><BR/>“Lastly, you don't realize that the people at Triablogue are treating you like a ‘useful idiot’." <BR/><BR/>Actually, we allow Loftus to post comments here because we like to use Loftus as a useful idiot—and he unfailingly plays the part we assign to him.<BR/><BR/>And to who his real friends are, it’s not as if Joe enjoyed a very friendly reception over at DC. For example:<BR/><BR/>http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/07/evan-on-legend-of-sargon.html?showComment=1215796620000#c6615382065608798047stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16547070544928321788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-29516160964048704722008-07-12T10:10:00.000-04:002008-07-12T10:10:00.000-04:00Joe said...The whole Mocking Christianity site (de...Joe said...<I>The whole Mocking Christianity site (debunking, which for them is nothing but mocking) is a game. They try to sell their badly written books and spend all their time plugging each other on Amazon. I suspect that's the true function of the blog.</I><BR/><BR/>I gues you've never written a book, eh? I also gather you also don't know what it's like to feel you did a good job on it and want others to read it. You too plug that which you write (in the thread above), so why the blatant hypocricy? We all plug that which we write, silly. Nor do you understand that no author but a bestselling author is fairly compensated monetarily for his work. Why do teachers teach? It's not to get rich you duffas!<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, why do you think we have "badly written books" until or unless you've read them? Isn't that jumping the gun? Is it your habit to regularly believe things without any evidence? There are people who have read mine who <A HREF="http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/06/why-i-became-atheist.html" REL="nofollow">don't think it's a bad book</A>, even Christian apologists and philosophers, to the point of recommending it.<BR/><BR/>Lastly, you don't realize that the people at Triablogue are treating you like a "useful idiot." That's right. You are ignorant not to see this. They will turn on you with invectives and <I>ad hominems</I> in a heart beat, <B>you liberal!</B> They hate liberals just as much as they hate atheists. These people are not your friends.<BR/><BR/>You and I have more things in common than you do with them, and yet you continue to attack me. Go ahead then, but wait and see what the Triabloguers have to say about your theology next time around. Then you'll know exactly what I mean.<BR/><BR/>Get your head on straight, Joe, please.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-60021561670704000272008-07-11T16:52:00.000-04:002008-07-11T16:52:00.000-04:00I'm stil waiting for Avalos to resign. He is the o...I'm stil waiting for Avalos to resign. He is the one who said biblical studies is a waste of tiem. you would think he would have found a new field by now.<BR/><BR/>Well, it may hard so I can help. Chick fila has an opening. they are always hiring.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6789188.post-41690760336728044552008-07-11T16:40:00.000-04:002008-07-11T16:40:00.000-04:00Avalos ois not impressive. You are quite right in ...Avalos ois not impressive. You are quite right in pointing out that one can't merely assert that similarity equals copying or influences. Case in point. In graduate school I wanted do a paper saying that Fritz Mouther influenced Beckett. Dr. Tim Redman did not allow me to make this claim until I found historical evidence that there was actually a proven link from Mouthner to Beckett. I found the quote that Beckett read Mouthner to James Joyce when he went blind. But even that was not enough for Redman. I still had to go further, that was just the beginning.<BR/><BR/>I one sees all sorts of mistakes Avalos makes, he mines data that supports his view and just ignores whole schools in a field that disagree with him. His chapter on the historical Jesus is pathetic. I will work that up soon.<BR/><BR/>The whole Mocking Christianity site (debunking, which for them is nothing but mocking) is a game. They try to sell their badly written books and spend all their time plugging each other on Amazon. I suspect that's the true function of the blog.Joseph Hinman (Metacrock)https://www.blogger.com/profile/06957529748541493998noreply@blogger.com