Thursday, July 29, 2010

Audio of John Loftus facing Paul Manata

A few years ago, John Loftus made what I think was his 2nd appearance on Gene Cook Jr's radio show The Narrow Mind.  Late in the call, Triablogger Paul Manata called in to speak with John.
Here is the recording of that call from start to finish.

My favorite part is near the end when Loftus begins to whine about "I wanted to have a dialogue".  What's yours?


  1. My favorite is "Why is it absurd John?". You've gotta love bald assertions. Whatever happened to Gene Cook? There have only been one or two episodes all year.

  2. John does not want dialog. If he did, he would not censor, delete, and ever alter posts at his his blog.

    Face it, the man is a liar.

    I know, he can whine "ad hominem" but we all know he does it.

  3. I should say that I was on a cell phone and standing outside in a parking lot while doing this. Because of the cell phone connection and the background noise I could not hear when he started to speak, so it sounds like I'm talking over him. At times I am, but it wasn't intentional.

  4. G. Kyle,

    Cook has at least one full-time job, owns his own business, and according to what he's said in his last few NMs, it's doing quite well. Hopefully he's rolling in the dough and can become independently wealthy so in the future he can broadcast full-time! :-)

  5. I enjoyed a presupper radio show that was constantly dealing with people of other worldviews. It seemed like the guys at Choosing Hats were going to start a podcast, but it never really took off. I guess it's back to Reformed Forum waiting for Gene to become wealthy and give us some more episodes.

  6. There really wasn't much of John Loftus left after Paul Manata finished his call. I wished the call had gone without interference, but still, it was a smashing few minutes of dialogue. I've noticed each time Loftus has had a debate/discussion with Paul Manta or Frank Walton, the pathetic nature of his atheism is made that much more obvious.

    As for Gene Cook, he has been dealing with a lawsuit involving one of his business associates. He actually posted on his Facebook just a few days ago that he plans to relaunch his show and build another new studio.

  7. Is the link invalid now? I have tried several times to open up the link to listen to the audio between them and haven't be able to? grrrr

  8. Works for me still.
    Save it to your computer and then try.

  9. Ok, did that and listened to the exchange.

    "it is absurb"!

    Only a fool says in their heart there is no God and deaden with logical blows words like these:

    Php 4:9 What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me--practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you.

    And why was Paul convinced of this?

    Well, because he certainly was thinking about these Words when writing those Words, either in general or specifically:

    Ecc 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.

    and these:

    Hab 2:2 And the LORD answered me: "Write the vision; make it plain on tablets, so he may run who reads it.
    Hab 2:3 For still the vision awaits its appointed time; it hastens to the end--it will not lie. If it seems slow, wait for it; it will surely come; it will not delay.
    Hab 2:4 "Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him, but the righteous shall live by his faith.

  10. It's a shame I can't listen to this. All I get is a Google webpage that says they cannot virus check it. It won't play or download. And all I can download from the link is an HTML file of the aforementioned non-working web page.

    Would someone care to post a transcript?

  11. Jonah,

    It would appear we live in very close geographical proximity.

    If you'll email me your email address (my address is on my profile page), I'll email you the file.
    Or we could get together for coffee at Gray Owl, you could bring your laptop and I my thumb drive!


  12. Jonah

    I had the same problem. I then right clicked on the button in the center and then clicked open in new link. At the bottom of the screen you should see it downloading. It takes a few moments and then you will start to hear Gene and John and then Gene will say Paul is on the line!

    Hope that helps?

  13. Here's an alternate source for the MP3 file, in case anyone is still having trouble accessing the Google Docs link.

    [posted with permission]

  14. Yesterday I tried emailing Paul about this talk although probably I had the wrong email address.

    Below is the relevant part of the email and would be really interested in some thoughts from Paul.

    "The other day, in the combox of a triablogue post, there was a link to a discussion you had with John Loftus on a radio program. I listened to the discussion. After Loftus off-handedly said the Christian worldview was absurd, you said to him (something along the lines of) that he believes apes derive from lizards and that qualities derive from their opposites.

    I have always been interested in the critique that someone is committed to believing qualities arose from their opposites. I think I first heard it (and maybe this is where you got it from) in an mp3 of Greg Bahnsen criticising abiogenesis. How could like arise from non-life? That would involve a quality arising from its opposite.

    Although it sounds very interesting, I was wondering if you have any thoughts on how to precisely apply the criticism or what its limits are. For example, it I mix sodium gas with chlorine gas, I would get salt (sodium chloride). Neither sodium nor chlorine are salty. Yet sodium chloride, what is derived from them, is salty.

    When you look at chemical equations, you all the time see that reactants have different properties (even opposite qualities) to products.

    So when is it irrational to suppose that something came from something with an opposite property and what isn’t it?"

  15. If I may intude and answer the e-mail addressed to Paul, he said that Loftus believes birds, not apes, derived from lizards, but that does not make it better I suppose. Also the taste of saltiness is a quaila and not an objective entity that science observes. Paul loves those who take the time to e-mail him.